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Veronica Kieffer
Oral history interview conducted by Benjamin Filene
August 19, 1987
Call number: 1995.005.004
BENJAMIN FILENE: You've already told us on the phone, um --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: -- and things but, uh, yeah, could, could you tell me again
what your job was?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yes. Well, I, uh, repaired binoculars.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: That came back from the ships that were out to sea.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mmm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, uh, we would take them apart and, uh, make them as
good as new. And really, I, I, I consider it to be like uh, an important part because the condition that they come back in, it was like, uh, filled with water and everything, you know, and really messy, and then we --BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: --, after we finished them it was just... great. You
know, they were like brand new.BENJAMIN FILENE: Huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And we always felt like that was a part of, you know,
that, what sailor used these, you know --BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- in the war and everything, you know. And um, that
1:00was mostly what I did there. And of course there was the sailors there that took care of the telescopes on the other side and we'd have more fun. They would look over at us and we'd look at -- through the binoculars --BENJAMIN FILENE: [laughter]
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- at them. Yeah. And, uh, and an exciting event was
when they, uh, you know, uh, had the, uh, launching of the, uh, aircraft carrier.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, uh, that, that I was picked to be an usherette
that day. That was just the greatest.BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah, what does that, what does that mean? That you --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Well, I gave out the programs --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- during the time, and, uh, oh it was so fabulous. Of
course all the higher-ups were there and everything --BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh-huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- you know. It's, to me it was just great, you know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh, that's exciting.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. Just a young girl and, uh, seeing all those
visitors. 'Course I, I didn't remember all of them [laughter], but, uh --BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- it was just great. It really was.
BENJAMIN FILENE: What years did you work there?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Well, I just worked there in, from '44 to '45.
2:00BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know, just one year, because, uh, see, it so
happened they wanted to put me back on nights again and I just didn't want to go back on nights. I --BENJAMIN FILENE: You started on nights?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. I started on nights and then they put me --
BENJAMIN FILENE: In '44?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: In '44. And then they put me on the day shift.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: For a while. And it wasn't long enough. And then they
said I had to go back on nights and I, no way, I said, I'm going to get a job where it's a normal job and --BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah, yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, uh, see, I originally worked for Sperry Gyroscope.
That was another big plant on 39th street --BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- in Brooklyn. And, uh, then they moved to, uh, out in
Long Island. And so then I couldn't travel out there at that time. You know, uh, I, I didn't drive and... and, uh, so then I went to the Navy Yard.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And then to the Navy Yard.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: So.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Um, so, back to the binoculars. How did you, uh, how do you go
about cleaning some binoculars up? 3:00VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, well, we had to take them all apart.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh-huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Every piece --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Are they normal size or were they --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Normal size.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah [inaudible], oh every piece had to come -- the
top, you know, and the, um, the lenses that were inside. They said the women did a better job with them because their hands didn't sweat as much and we had to clean the lenses that they -- because after all, they were just filled with water --BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- and, uh, naturally they had to be clear and focused
right. And we'd take them all apart and bring them into, they had like this one room where you cleaned all the parts. Did a very good job and dried it off and then brought them back --BENJAMIN FILENE: Mmm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- and put them back together.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And like I said, it was, I couldn't remember all the
details of it but --BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I... you knew that it had to be just perfect after it
went back on the ship.BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. So were they mounted on the ship or did they -- sailors
carry them around or, uh --VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I don't know. I really don't know. All I know is that
4:00we got them --BENJAMIN FILENE: Mmm-hmm. So you never put them on the ship.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: No.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: No.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. That wasn't our job. Whatever... I, in fact I, I, I
never went on a ship [laughter].BENJAMIN FILENE: [laughter]
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I don't remember ever going on a ship there.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I think they were off-limits at the time. You know --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I don't know why but I never did go on.
BENJAMIN FILENE: So, um, how did you decide to work at the Yard? You said that
you were working at Sperry and that --VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Sperry, yes, and --
BENJAMIN FILENE: And then why the Yard? Out of --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Well, because I felt that I had enough experience, uh,
that they would hire me. You know. And I wanted to do something that was pertaining to the war.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I didn't want to just go into, uh, I mean I, before
that I'd worked in an office and, but I felt that, uh, it, something like that was necessary.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Like in Sperry's I worked nights, too, then. And I
worked on drill press and gyroscopes and did all those things and it was so 5:00exciting. And I wanted to continue that.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mmm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And I really felt bad about them moving.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, uh, that's why I went there.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay. So how did your family and friends react to you working
at the yard?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh!
BENJAMIN FILENE: Or to you working in general?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, uh, they, they, my mother didn't mind. My, you
know, my parents didn't mind at all. They thought it was just great that -- the only thing is that they used to worry about my traveling at night. Although around there wasn't really that bad.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: But I felt I could take care of myself, you know. And,
uh... no, they were very good. Like if -- when I was working nights and come home during the day and I had to sleep, you know, because I was tired.BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah, sure.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You come home in the morning. And, uh, you know, they
were very good about it.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: 'Course my brothers were in the service. I had four
brothers in the service.BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh, really?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: [inaudible] --
BENJAMIN FILENE: So, family affair here.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Right. Right.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Um, so was it, were there mostly women who were working on, on
6:00the binoculars, or, or --VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: All women.
BENJAMIN FILENE: All --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: All women were working on binoculars. Yes, because like
I said, that was, the important, uh, part of it is the fact that women's hands didn't sweat as much --BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- and as you went to put the lens back into it, you
know, they didn't want any, uh, cloudiness on it.BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: So, uh...
BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah, there was quite a few women.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Were there, uh... what other sort of jobs did women have at the yard?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh. I don't really know. I mean, uh --
BENJAMIN FILENE: So, yeah --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- as far as all the women that I ever associated with
were in that group there, in that, uh, special building.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I mean there was all different buildings all, you know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Was it just, was the building just for the binoculars?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No, no. There was different floors, they, and I don't
really know what they had on -- ours was -- our building had to be air conditioned because it was, the work that was involved, we had to have 7:00everything spotless.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: When they left. You know. All the instruments that
they, like the sailors had the, uh, telescopes and they had to be spotless. So our building was air conditioned and we also had separate, um, desks. High tables, like that sort of desk. And we'd sit there, you know --BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- and all, all our work was just, what we had right on
our table.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, uh, very clean. Everything was kept so clean.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: So do you think, um, that this was typical, that, that women
had certain jobs that, there were certain jobs that women were, uh, seen as better suited for than the men?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, yes. Yeah. Even in, uh, Sperry's, it was the same
way. That, uh, as far as the work we did there, you know, uh, working on drill presses and lathes and... women uh, really, uh, got into it right away. 8:00BENJAMIN FILENE: So you --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: 'Cause there weren't that many men, you know, that, uh,
unless, unless they were older men.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: But at the time they all, a lot of young fellas had to
go into the, uh, service.BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: So you were working on drill presses and lathes?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: What, when were you doing --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: In Sperry's.
BENJAMIN FILENE: At Sperry's.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: But not the Yard.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: So that, they -- when, how long did you, uh, work at Sperry?
When did -- roughly when did you start? Was it dur-during the war or after?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh yes. Oh, no. During the war.
BENJAMIN FILENE: During the war.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I went there, I, I just, I can't recall really.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Well, that's what I meant --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: It was --
BENJAMIN FILENE: -- during the war, yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: It was during the war. Oh, yeah. This --
BENJAMIN FILENE: And then --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- all this was during the war. Yes.
BENJAMIN FILENE: And they trained you to use the drill press and --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Mm-hmm. In fact one time I got, uh [laughter], sent
home because we had to wear hats.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Women had to wear hats 'cause our hair was very long,
you know --BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- at that time --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- there was no men with long hair. And I came back
from lunch and I just wasn't in the mood to put that hat on, you know --BENJAMIN FILENE: [laughter]
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- so I stuck it on top of my head, and my boss came
out. Veronica, get home. [laughter] 9:00BENJAMIN FILENE: [laughter] Oops.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And I said, no! I says, I can't. He says, out. And you
know, you'd lose time and uh...BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah, yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And I said, no. He's, well, I told you. I'm warning you
girls that you have to wear your hats. You, your hair ever get caught in that drill press, forget it. You know? You --BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Okay.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: So... I, I knew I was wrong, but I [laughter] --
BENJAMIN FILENE: [laughter]
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- I was just, uh, you know, determined, well, I'm not
going to listen to them.BENJAMIN FILENE: So, uh, why didn't you, um, did you not want to work on the
drill press and the lathe at the Yard?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Uh, I really don't know. I don't think they had any
openings for anything like that.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I don't know why they hired me for the binoculars. I
really don't.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm. Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I learned right away. It wasn't anything, you know. I
was quite capable of, uh, learning everything that they taught me, even though I had no, uh, you know, experience before that, like in, uh, Sperry's too. I just learned it. I, you know, I was always, uh, the type of a person that would --BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- was eager to learn.
10:00BENJAMIN FILENE: So you said that you felt that Sperry had prepared you a bit
for the yard?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: How's that?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Well, because the experience on working on different
machinery and stuff, I felt that, uh --BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- you know. I could manage.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Um, so did you come in contact... were your supervisors women?
Or --VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. Men. Men.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Super, supervisors were men.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: And, uh, how, how did they treat the women workers?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, very good.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. Yeah. I wish I remembered this one man's name. He
was so good to me. He really was. And he was the one that got me on the day shift, you know --BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- because I, I said, I'm so tired of it. You know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I'm a young girl and I'm working nights, and so, he got
me on the day shift. And then, uh --BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- they said they needed me back on the night shift so
I had to go back and that's... but they were very nice. And then there was a -- they were, were supposed to put on a show. There was, on another floor, I don't remember the floor that they -- and this fella was a very talented person and 11:00they wanted to put on a show. And he had asked me to, uh, participate in it. But I never did.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mmm, huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Um --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: They, no, they were very nice. We got along very well.
Most of these were married men with children. That they --BENJAMIN FILENE: This is the supervisors?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- you know, they didn't go into the service.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And that.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Um, in the building you said there were mostly women. What were
some of the other jobs, or what was the title of the building, or, uh... ?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, Cumberland Street Building.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: That's, I, I have no idea what the other, the women's
other jobs. I mean, I'm talking about the women that were in my department.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know. We worked on the binoculars.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I don't know of any, uh, anything else that the other
women did. In the --BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay. Um, so did you have any contact with the men workers from
the Navy Yard?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Just the, the few that -- oh --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Just the s--
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- some of the sailors, you know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Just being friendly.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: They weren't allowed on our side, you know. Uh, they,
12:00we, our job was, uh, different from theirs. Right? So they would be on the other side. We weren't supposed to bother with any of the, uh, sailors. Of course, all young girls, you know.BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh-huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And at that time we weren't allowed to, uh, you know,
we couldn't get candy and things like that, and they would go to their cafeteria and come back with some candy, candy bars and throw it to us, and --BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh, really.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- if I made believe that they had to get something
there [laughter] --BENJAMIN FILENE: [laughter]
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- and, but that's about all. In the --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Or if we'd go into the washroom to do our parts, then
some of them would come in there and we'd get to talk. You know.BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh-huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: But if our supervisor, of course, caught us, then-- [laughter]
BENJAMIN FILENE: [laughter] So these were mostly the sailors, not the Navy Yard workers?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. Those were the sailors.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Sailors.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Um, and so they seemed pretty pleased to have you around, it
sounds like.VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, yeah. It was, it was fun. These, and these girls
were fun to be with, too.BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And I just wish, you know, it was something that I soon
left, uh, and they, we never got in touch with each other anymore --BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
13:00VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- you know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: 'Cause I lived in Sheepshead Bay and it was, like, I
guess they lived in different areas so I more or less didn't travel.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But you did things with them off the job it
looks like, huh?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, we had -- oh, a couple of
times we had, we would eat lunch outside. They had that, uh, park area there by the Navy Yard, and we'd go out there and have our lunch.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: This was on the day shift, that. The night shift we
just had to stay in.BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Did you, do you [inaudible], were you near Sand Street?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah, not far from it.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Did you do anything down there?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. No. There, the only time I remember being in that
area's when my, uh, husband, which was my boyfriend at the time, came out of the service and we went to one of the bars there. But, uh --BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- you know. Went to --
BENJAMIN FILENE: So your husband was in the service this whole time?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, yeah. My husband was in the, in the Marines. In
fact, he was stationed at the Navy Yard. And he, uh, left from there one morning 14:00that -- I knew he was leaving but he couldn't say just when he was leaving. So I walked towards the barracks because you weren't allowed inside, you know, and I walked -BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- on the outside. And one of his friends was up there
and he said he left and he threw me a, a package that he left me --BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- it was a insignia of the Marines.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh-huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know, the Marine insignia.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh-huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, uh, and then he left.
BENJAMIN FILENE: He couldn't tell you when he was going to leave?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. No --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Wow.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- that was a secret. Every --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Gosh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I knew he was leaving but not exactly just where he was
going to or, then I got, received a card from him saying that he was in the Pacific. You know.BENJAMIN FILENE: Wow.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: So no, that was, everything was very secretive at that time.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You just, you know, any information that you gave
out... even like the ships that came in, I think we weren't ever supposed to mention that, uh --BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: So was the security pretty tight in your building, too?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Mm-hmm.
BENJAMIN FILENE: How did they -- what did they do to keep things tight?
15:00VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Well, we had our ID... oh, you know. They were all
around the place and, uh, and you naturally had your ID card to come into the, uh, building, into the Yard itself. You couldn't come in without it.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Even the same way in Sperry's. It was the same thing.
It was very strict at that.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm. Um, was the Navy Yard -- how was the Navy Yard viewed at
the time by the Brooklyn community. I mean, what do you think people thought of it who didn't work there?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Well, I don't know. Some of them thought, oh, kind,
it's kind of a wild place. You know. All the sailors hanging out there and --BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- things going on. But I never seen anything like that.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Myself. I never did. Never had any trouble, nothing to
worry about walking around there --BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- at night. Because we had to walk to the train.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No, no problems. I really didn't. I didn't mind doing it.
BENJAMIN FILENE: What did people think of the, the people who worked at the
16:00Yard? The Navy Yard workers and, what do you think the community thought of that?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh... I'm going to guess they thought they were doing
their duty. It was during the war. Yeah.BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah, that's what I was wondering.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. I, I mean, actually if there's someone that's
been there a much longer time, they could, uh, really, uh, you know, tell you more about it.BENJAMIN FILENE: Well, I'm just wondering at, at the time, like, what you
thought of --VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, I --
BENJAMIN FILENE: -- when you were going there.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I was proud to be there.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I really was.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I mean, I guess I would have never quit if it wasn't
that I was just a type of a person that was determined to get my way more so than they were --BENJAMIN FILENE: [laughter]
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- and since they said that I had to go back on nights,
no way. And --BENJAMIN FILENE: So why do you think you had to get back on nights?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Because they needed me there. They felt they needed
more relief people --BENJAMIN FILENE: Is this when the war ended?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: The war was still going.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: When was the war ended? The war ended in --
BENJAMIN FILENE: '45.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
BENJAMIN FILENE: But this was before the war ended.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Mm-hmm.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Um... was it, how was your salary at the time? Was it, uh --
17:00VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Not very much.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: But a better salary than anywhere else.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh, really?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, yeah. Uh, I think I left Sperry's making 44 dollars
a week.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: So, uh, the Navy yard, I think... 'course it might have
been about the same. I really have no --BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. You're not exact with it.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. But it wasn't, you know, nothing like today. [laughter]
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: But that was a good salary.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: It really was. Especially that, uh, you know, working
nights, that was, uh --BENJAMIN FILENE: Did the women get, uh, different salaries than the men, do you
think? Do you know?VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh, I imagine so. I really don't... I, I imagine so. It
was always that way. Men always got paid more.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: But it was a good salary for, for a girl, a young girl,
that was a good salary.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I mean, my first job that I ever worked at, I was
making 16 dollars a week. So -- not too bad.BENJAMIN FILENE: What were you doing then?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I worked in a doll factory.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh yeah?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. Helping out, you know, uh, giving the women the,
all the different parts to make the doll's clothes and stuff, so, and the sewers 18:00[seamstresses]. That was my first job. And then I went to, um, uh, I worked in an office after that. At, for, uh, Powers Photo Engraving.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And I think that was about 18 dollars [laughter], you know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Nothing --
BENJAMIN FILENE: So was it, was it unusual at the time for, um, young women to
be working, or were a lot of people in your school groups and --VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Uh, well, in, working in, in regular jobs was, uh, you
know, considered okay. But going into, uh, defense plants like that was a little unusual.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know. I mean, no one else in my family, no one else
in my family ever worked in jobs like that. Like my sisters. Like, there was nine of us. [laughter]BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh, wow.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And four brothers went into the service and, uh, you
know, none of my sisters. My sis -- one sister worked in Sears, my other sister worked as a telephone operator. 19:00BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Switchboard operator.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And another sister worked in a bookbinding place. And
my younger sister was... working in an office. None of, none of them worked --BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- at the jobs that I did.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I was really, you know, outgoing. I would try anything.
BENJAMIN FILENE: That's great. Um, was this a really tough job or was it an easy
job, or...VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No, it wasn't tough.
BENJAMIN FILENE: No?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. It really wasn't.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Because we, yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Because you had to really put them back in good
condition. You know --BENJAMIN FILENE: Right, but you weren't frantic --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- they were inspect --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. Never.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Um, another thing I wanted to ask about was about, uh,
race relations at the, at the yard. Were there, um, were there Blacks working with you? Were there...VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Uh, no.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Were there, uh --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: -- immigrants or, um...
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Immigrants? No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: -- other ethnic groups?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. Hmm, all different nationalities.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know. I really -- no, I, I don't remember any
Blacks. I really don't.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: But --
BENJAMIN FILENE: All different nationalities, you mean from, of origin.
20:00VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yes. Yes.
BENJAMIN FILENE: But not -- yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Nothing, no... no. All, all these girls were Italian,
like I was.BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh-huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. I'm pretty sure. Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: So were your, were you, what generation Italian were you?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Oh. My parents were born in Italy.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay, so --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: So, uh, yeah. But I, my mother came here uh, to this
country, when she was ten years old.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: So, uh, she was quite young, you know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, uh, I... in fact I don't even speak Italian --
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- because I was never interested in learning. You
know, I was just, had that attitude that you didn't speak a foreign language. You wanted to be American all the way through.BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh-huh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: So.
BENJAMIN FILENE: So were there any, uh, racial, uh, conflicts or any, uh --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: -- any resentments that you heard about?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. Nothing that, uh... except for how, what we thought
21:00about the Germans, of course. [laughter]BENJAMIN FILENE: Well, yeah. [laughter]
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No. And you know, but not really. We didn't we have any
problems like that. And like I said, there wasn't many Black -- although, I can't say there wasn't Blacks in the neighborhood that I lived in, Sheepshead Bay. There was. And we were very close. Very friendly people. We got along very well.BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, uh, there's no conflict whatsoever.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Hmm. That's great.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: How do you, uh, what, what views do you have of the Navy Yard
today? I mean, uh, as you know, it's gone through a lot of ups and downs --VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Right.
BENJAMIN FILENE: -- since then. Um...
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: I, I haven't, haven't ever been there.
BENJAMIN FILENE: You haven't been there since?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Well, what they're doing now is they're trying to make it, um,
make it work through private companies instead of through the, the Navy.VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Really?
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah.
BENJAMIN FILENE: And um --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: What are they, making new buildings? Or are they going
to, uh --BENJAMIN FILENE: Well, they've, they've torn down a lot of, some of the old
ones, but a lot of them are still there and they're filling them with, uh, warehouses and, and private shipping companies. 22:00VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Mm-hmm. Well, that should be good.
BENJAMIN FILENE: So have you, do you think the Navy Yard is, I mean, do you ever
come across the Navy Yard day-to-day, or is it...VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: No.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know --
BENJAMIN FILENE: I think it's part --
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- living out -- I -- the only time that, uh, I've been
in the city -- I count the number of times that I've been in the city, about five. My daughter works in the city. She works right on the, for Manufacturers Hanover?BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh really?
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, uh, she -- around Wall Street, there. And, uh, I
met her twice I think, for lunch.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: You know.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And then another time we went to see -- we went to, uh
-- oh. No. More than that. We went to the, uh, Seaport?BENJAMIN FILENE: South Street Seaport.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Yeah. I went there twice.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Once with a group from, um, the church. You know, we --
on a bus.BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm-hmm.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And the second time we, um, finally went on the Statue
of Liberty.BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh, yeah. [laughter]
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: After all of those years. And the second, uh, the first
time we ever went, my husband and I and -- we took my grandchildren when we went 23:00-- and we parked around there. And we were going to see the, uh, Intrepid, is that it? The -- but we never got to see that.BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And, and I went into the city to see a couple of shows,
but --BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: -- as far as the -- in Brooklyn I think I went three
times, you know?BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: And I still have friends there, but, uh...
BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: We don't make the trip as much.
BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.
VERONICA MARINO KIEFFER: Except when my daughter was living there for a while,
you know.BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay. Well that's, that's really interesting.
Interview Description
Oral History Interview with Veronica Kieffer
Veronica Marino Kieffer (ca. 1920- ) worked at Sperry Gyroscope in Brooklyn with drill presses and gyroscopes. After Sperry moved to Long Island, Kieffer began working at the Navy Yard.
While working at the Navy Yard, Veronica Marino Kieffer (ca. 1920- ) lived in Sheepshead Bay. During her interview, she discusses her relationships with the other workers and her supervisors, her work cleaning and repairing binoculars, her Italian background, her family and the work she did before coming to the Navy Yard. In one instance, Kieffer was sent home for not wearing her hat while working on a drill press because of the danger of getting het hair caught in the machine. Interview conducted by Benjamin Filene.
The Brooklyn Navy Yard oral history collection is comprised of over fifty interviews of men and women who worked in or around the Brooklyn Navy Yard, primarily during World War II. The narrators discuss growing up in New York, their work at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, their relationships with others at the Yard, gender relations and transportation to and from work. Many narrators bring up issues of ethnicity, race, and religion at the Yard or in their neighborhoods. Several people describe the launching of the USS Missouri battleship and recall in detail their daily tasks at the Yard (as welders, office workers and ship fitters). While the interviews focus primarily on experiences in and around the Yard, many narrators go on to discuss their lives after the Navy Yard, relating stories about their careers, dating and marriage, children, social activities, living conditions and the changes that took place in Manhattan and Brooklyn during their lifetimes.
Citation
Kieffer, Veronica Marino, ca. 1920-, Oral history interview conducted by Benjamin Filene, August 19, 1987, Brooklyn Navy Yard oral history collection, 1995.005.004; Brooklyn Historical Society.People
- Kieffer, Veronica Marino, ca. 1920-
- New York Naval Shipyard
- Sperry Gyroscope Company
Topics
- Binoculars
- Emigration and immigration
- Ethnicity
- Friendship
- Immigrants
- Italian Americans
- Shipyards
- Uniforms
- Wages
- Women--Employment
- World War, 1939-1945
Places
- Brooklyn (New York, N.Y.)
- Sheepshead Bay (New York, N.Y.)
Transcript
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Brooklyn Navy Yard oral history collection