George Martinez

MACHINE: Hello. No one is available to take your call. Please leave a message after the tone.

SADY SULLIVAN: Hi, this is a message for George Martinez. This is Sady Sullivan from the Brooklyn Navy Yard's oral history project, and I thought that we had a phone interview scheduled today. Um, I may be mistaken. You can reach --

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Hello.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, hello.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. Who's this?

SADY SULLIVAN: This is Sady Sullivan from the --

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, yes, yes. How you doing, k-- uh, yeah, how you doin'?

SADY SULLIVAN: Good. How are you?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: All right. I was expecting your call.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yes. Okay. Good. I wasn't sure if this was still a good time.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yes. Sure. Sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. Great. Um, so just so you know, I'm recording this 1:00conversation, and then the recording will go into the Navy Yard archives, and the Brooklyn Historical Society's archives. Is that okay with you?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Of course.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. Great.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Now, do we get any kind of, uh -- a copy of a letter, or, uh, anything that this was done, so I could send it to my sister?

SADY SULLIVAN: Of course. Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh.

SADY SULLIVAN: You know what? I can send you a copy of the interview.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, why don't you tell me your address.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, [address redacted for privacy]

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, and, ahem -- great. So let me just formally start the interview. Um, it is -- Today is Tuesday, June 24th, 2008. I am Sady Sullivan with the Brooklyn Historical Society, and this interview is part of the Brooklyn Navy Yard's oral history project.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: And I am speaking with George Martinez.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Right.

SADY SULLIVAN: If -- If you would introduce yourself to the recording, and however you would like to do that.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Well, I am talking for my sister -- my oldest sister.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I mentioned that last time, too. Ahem.

SADY SULLIVAN: That's right. That's right. Um, and this is -- Because last time we weren't recording, so I might ask you to repeat some stuff.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. That's fine.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. Great. Um, so can you -- Just so we make sure we have everything spelled correctly, can you spell your last name for me?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: M-A-R-T-I-N-E-Z.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. Great. And what is your date of birth?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: [date redacted for privacy]-33

SADY SULLIVAN: [date redacted for privacy]-33. Oh, that's a nice lucky birthday. Um, okay. And your -- so we are talking about your older sister --

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Correct.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- um, and what is her name?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, her maiden name at that time?

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. What's her -- What's her maiden name, and then what's her 3:00name now?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Okay. Her maiden name was Grace Martinez.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: She's now married, and her name is Grace De La Rosa.

SADY SULLIVAN: How do you spell that?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: D-E --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: ---- space L--A --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: ---- space ROSA -- R-O-S-A.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: All capital letters.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. And what's her date of birth?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: [date redacted for privacy], uh -- oh, let me see. She's eighty f -- eighty-five, so -- so she will be nine -- 1923 then, right?

SADY SULLIVAN: She's ten years older than you?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. Yeah. 1923.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: OK. [date redacted for privacy]-23. [date redacted]-23. I'm sorry. January.

SADY SULLIVAN: [date redacted for privacy]-23.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Correct.

SADY SULLIVAN: And did you come from, uh, a big family? Is that your only sister?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: No. I have two sisters. Younger, and one older.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I was in the middle.

SADY SULLIVAN: And that's it? So three kids?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Right.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And where were you born?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Brooklyn, New York.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ah, do you remember what neighborhood?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Williamsburg.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, wow! Um --

GEORGE MARTINEZ: You're -- you -- Why? You know that?

SADY SULLIVAN: I do know -- I live in Greenpoint.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, okay! Yeah. We used to go to the Saint Catherine's Hospital.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: [laughter] Um, and where were your parents born?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, Colombia, South America.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, okay. And when did they come to the States?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Hm. Hold on. Let me see if, uh, get my -- my wife will remember. Chris, what year did my parents come to the U.S.? Uh, I'd have to find out. I think it was 1931, but I'm not sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: OK. So, um -- So they were -- They came as adults?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, ye -- yeah. Young adults. Young adults.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. But you were born here in the States?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Right. I was born here, and so was my younger sister.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. But your older sister, Grace, was born in Colombia?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: [inaudible] Yeah. She came over when she was about five years old.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, wow. Okay. Um, and do you speak Spanish in the house?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Both -- Spanish and English.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. That's great. Um, and okay, so how did your sister come to be working at the Navy Yards?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: If I remember correctly, she was going to college at the time to be a teacher.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: The war broke out, and she immediately applied for, uh, work at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, which was only ten to fifteen minutes from the house. It, it was -- at that time, they had trolley systems, so she would walk two short blocks, get on the trolley, and they'd leave her right in front of the Brooklyn Navy Yard entrance.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, that's what, uh -- how she started, and then -- and then 6:00they trained her as a welder on the Navy Yard sh -- war ships.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. And -- I mean, I think it's -- it's really neat, that women were -- were taking on that kind of work, then. Did you -- did you have an awareness as her younger brother that she was -- that she was -- had a cool job?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, yeah. Sure! Well, at -- at that time, people, especially woman, were not making a lot of money --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- in those -- in, uh, 1941. Yeah. They were -- the [inaudible] was -- was extremely bare, and woman were not working in men's jobs, or paid very well, anyway.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So when she, uh -- she applied, they had asked for anybody to come work, because they needed everybody. And, uh, woman went to work, and the Afro-Americans, uh, came up to work there, because they -- now they would give them jobs.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So everybody was given a job that could work.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Even midgets.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And, uh -- handicapped people were given, uh, jobs, also.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So it was a big life saver.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, and so she was still living at home with -- with your family when she was working there?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And how old would she be about when she started?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh... I'd guess early twenties, but I'm not sure, you know --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- I'd have to find out.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I just don't... I tried to ask my sister -- my older sister a few things, but, uh, she just doesn't remember too much.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so do you remember her going off to work?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: All the time. All the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh! Well, tell me about that. What did she -- What did she wear? What -- How'd she come home?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Well, at that time, woman didn't wear men's clothes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And it was very rare for women to wear slacks of any kind.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: But she had to go buy men's clothing, and wear these big heavy 8:00coveralls, and jackets.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And while she was welding, they would -- they trained her to weld, and they would put on her a big thick rubber suit, you know, in front, like an -- a rubber apron, actually. And, uh, the -- the, uh -- the helmets for welders. You know, the big heavy helmet.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And, uh, that's how she would weld -- uh, whatever she had to do.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, if I remember correctly, she only worked days, but I don't remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: But her main complaint was that her clothing would always be burnt, anyway. She continuously had to buy men's pants -- blue dungarees. And, uh, -- and her -- her eyes suffered a great deal. They were always constantly bloodshot --

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- from the high intensity welding.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So...

SADY SULLIVAN: So would she -- In the morning, would she go off to work -- ?GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- um, in the -- in the men's clothes?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I don't remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh -- Yeah. I -- I could find out some of these things if you write me a letter with certain questions, and I could find out for you.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, that might be a good idea. Yeah. Maybe when I send you a copy of this, I can send along some more --

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yes. Send all --

SADY SULLIVAN: -- questions.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- the questions you want, and I'll get an answer for you.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. Um, that would be good. Um, do you remember, did she, like, do her hair, and makeup, and things like that before she left?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Well, all the woman made themselves up, you know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: They wore -- They wore makeup, and... Eh, makeup was not that much. Makeup in those, uh, days consisted of lipstick, and a little rouge and some lipstick. You know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, but not that much of that other creams that they put on their face now. You know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and what did your parents think about your sister working in a place like the Navy Yard?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, that was nothing. It was great, because there was extra 10:00money coming in.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: It was only my mother supporting the family at that time. My father had gone back to the old country. He was very sick.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So with the -- with my -- with my oldest sister working, and getting bigger pay, it -- it was a big help.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Didn't get rich, but it was a help.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: You couldn't spend the money in those days. There was nothing to buy. Everything was rationed.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, you got a ration -- a ration book for meat, sugar, shoes, gasoline, and some other items.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: There was a -- They instituted a fish -- Friday fish day so you wouldn't buy meat that day. You couldn't buy meat.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: On Fridays. Uh, and there were other things. Oh, we had to recycle a lot of stuff. Everything was recycled.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, metal, or iron, steel, rubber -- uh, no, not plastic, 11:00because plastic was not really big in those days.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: But, uh, we did scrap drives --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- of paper or cardboard. Uh, and in the school -- I remember going to elementary school, and we would -- The students were encouraged to bring in newspapers, and cardboard, and down the block from the school was a junk yard. You would turn in the papers. They would weigh it. They would give you a nickel or a dime -- whatever it was worth, and a little piece of paper saying how much you collected with the money.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And then you were told to donate that to your -- to the -- you would donate it -- giving it to the teacher who would turn it into the war effort.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: The money and the, uh, -- the amount of paper, and cardboard that we collected. I understand some schools collected, uh, more than [inaudible] got, uh, recognition. You know, some kind of a flag pennant or whatever they did. You know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: But we all collected paper, and all that stuff.

SADY SULLIVAN: That's such a good thing, that kind of unity.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: It was different in those days.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: It was completely different. Ev -- Everybody was -- worked together.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Everyone. Everybody worked together. It was really, you know -- And I remember these scrap drives. We would go -- Somebody would get an idea -- Let's look for scrap, and all the kids would go through garbage dumps, and cellars, and we would pile them up in front of somewhere, and then the -- this big board, or whoever where were would come and collect it -- rubber, you know -- nothing went to waste.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Nothing went to waste. Uh, you know -- um, people were starting to make their own batteries for the cars, because you couldn't buy batteries.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh my goodness.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And they retread tires wherever they could. There were recaps in those days -- a lot of recaps. Uh, they don't do it anymore. It's -- I think it's against the law anyway. But, uh, everything was collected. Everything. Everything was collected. And if there was some kind of an -- a dispute, or a 13:00minor dispute of something, or you wanted something, like, they would shout at you. "You can't have that! Don't you know there's a war on?"

SADY SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GEORGE MARTINEZ: That was a big slogan in those days.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, you know -- And the posters we used to have, uh, uh, you know -- "Loose Lips Sink Ships", and, uh, "Don't talk about important things." Yeah. All these posters were implying certain, uh, war details that you couldn't -- didn't want you to -- to talk about.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: All these posters.

SADY SULLIVAN: Did your sister ever -- Was that part of her work at the Navy Yard? Was there stuff that she couldn't talk about?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, not that I remember, but there was nothing -- nothing crucial to divulge, but -- to divulge, because she was just a welder, you know. She wasn't in -- in, uh, electronics or anything like that -- you know -- or old 14:00munitions that could be interpreted as secret. No, she -- As far as I know, she -- she didn't mention anything like that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, you know -- I re -- The only time I remember she mentioned that somehow they found, or they captured a Japanese miniature -- mini-sub, and they brought it to the Brooklyn Navy Yard to show the people, and she saw that on display. But that was about the only think I can --

SADY SULLIVAN: What was it?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: A Japanese submarine -- a miniature submarine.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, wow!

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. That's what she told me. So she said, "Yeah. They brought it, and they show it to people here."

SADY SULLIVAN: And why were they -- Were they showing it to people just out of curiosity, or to... ?GEORGE MARTINEZ: No. To boost the war effort.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Everything was to boost the war effort.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Everything.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, and so did your sister -- did she take the job at the Navy Yard, um, because -- because of the war, to boost the war effort, or because it 15:00was a good job? Why do you think she took that job?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: The war.

SADY SULLIVAN: Because she -- Out of sort of patriotism?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: That, oh, everybody was -- In those days was -- That was the reason you did whatever you did.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Everything.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Everything.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Everything. I remember one time somebody -- two, two gentlemen -- two very well just dressed, dressed gentlemen came, knocked on the door. My sister was talking to them, and I couldn't under -- understand what they were talking about. But my father was a radio freak.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: He would assemble radios, and -- and I would, uh -- that's before he went back to the old country when he got sick -- and he would take me into the city. He would buy these auto pa -- uh, uh -- radio parts, and he would tinker with radios, and fix them, and whatever he did. So I'm assuming that they came to talk to him about that -- assuming that he knew a lot. He -- He might -- 16:00might be able to help them, or --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- assuming that he was a spy.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm!

GEORGE MARTINEZ: But nothing came of it. You know? My sister -- "Oh, they were just asking about pa's, uh, radio." That -- That was the end of the conversation.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Who they were, I can't tell you. But they were big, well-dressed guys.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm!

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, I'm assuming they were somebody important.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah, like, do you think, like, government, or...?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I would guess they were, but I -- I really -- You know, she didn't know. She didn't... In those days, you didn't ask; authority was authority.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: You didn't question authority.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. Um, so tell me a little bit about Williamsburg when you were growing up there.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, it was a -- It was a mixed melting pot of all races, and cultures. Uh, and it was very cool. We had a walk-up tenement. That whole area was really walk-up tenements. I don't know if you -- Uh, Yeah. You should be familiar with walk-up tenements.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. Well, we had four on each side, six stories high.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Tenements on the fourth, fifth floor -- whatever.

SADY SULLIVAN: Do you remember your address?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, of course. Can't forget it. I was born and raised there. It was 55 -- I wrote it in my letter -- Didn't I write... ? Oh, no. I didn't write you a letter. It was the [inaudible] building. It was 55 Varet Street.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: V-A-R-E-T.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. Very well-known. Very well-known. For -- Oh, well for me 'cause I was born and raised in that area. You know? But we had our trolley down the block. They no longer have trolleys because everybody has cars --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- so, eh, I think they discontinued the trolley and the bus.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, uh, everybody has cars now in that area. But, uh, I -- Then I got, uh, I went, sorry -- I went -- Through the Korean Campaign, I went into the service. Oh go ahead, you want to talk about Brooklyn. Go ahead.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, so who was in your neighborhood in terms of ethnicity, and race?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, it was, uh, one-third Jewish, one-third Hispanic, and, uh, 18:00a little bit -- but -- but more I would say one-third Italian. Yes. I would say one-third Italian.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, the Afro-Americans lived a block away, but we didn't mingle, although the kids went to school together.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: But we didn't mingle, and we had no problems. We had no problems, really.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: No. They wouldn't -- They very seldom walked down our blocked, and we seldom walked down their block. Uh, don't ask me why, but, you know... But I was very good friends with -- very good friends with a few Afro-American friends of mine.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: They were -- Some of them were very nice. Some, you know, like anybody else.

SADY SULLIVAN: But there was a -- a separation?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Well, there was a block.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: There was a block. They were -- They lived a block away, which is -- which is a little bit seedier -- I would have to say it that way -- than my block area.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, uh, for whatever reason, they would not, or could no,t move into my area buildings.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And we would not want to live into, eh, their area tenement buildings.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So it -- it was separate.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And what, what else would ya...?

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, was there other, uh, woman, girls from the neighborhood who were working in the Navy Yards with your sister?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: The only one I -- I -- I can vouch for was a -- a long-time friend, Jewish girl, uh, that they -- they grew up more or less together. Although they lived -- we lived like four or five blocks apart, but they always were together with another group of three or four Jewish girls, and they always hung out together, and they always went to movies together, or dances, or parties. They always went together. And, uh, I visited their family there a 20:00couple of times. Their parents came once or twice to us. Uh -- and they're still friends.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh my goodness!

GEORGE MARTINEZ: They still communicate. Uh, the Jewish girl, for my sister's eightieth birthday went down to Mexico City -- where she now lives -- to celebrate her eightieth birthday. She's the same age as my -- my sister.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh. And where does she live now?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: She lives in Florida.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, okay. Do you think -- Could you -- Could we be in touch with her to ask her questions about the Navy Yard also?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Well, uh, I could, because I do, uh, uh, send them cards. The problem is that she was working in an office in the city, from what I understand.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, so for the Navy Yard, but...

GEORGE MARTINEZ: She -- So, she went to the Navy Yard to work with my sister, and she started, from what I understand, but then when they found out her history that she was an office worker, they put her right in the office.

SADY SULLIVAN: And the office wasn't in the Yards? It was in Manhattan?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: No. No. It was in the Yard.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, it was in the Yard,

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: There's always bookkeeping. [laughter] Yeah. There's always a lot of paperwork.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. Right. Well, we would be still interested in -- in interviewing her, even though she wasn't, um, working with the ships, so, um, if -- Next time you speak to her, if you ask if, you know -- let her know that we might be interested.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, that would be good. So what did your sister do after -- How did -- Tell me about how she left the Navy Yards, and what she did --

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- after.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: When the war was over in Europe, I remember, the -- the Navy Yard Commander was a, uh, uh, a Naval Officer --

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- and, uh, he -- over the loudspeaker, he -- he said, "Attention. Attention. Everybody please stop working", and he said, "I have a message for you. The war is now over, and let us all kneel down and pray. Thank 22:00God that's over. The boys are coming home."

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: That's what they did. Everything stopped. It was complete stillness, she said.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: They said a short prayer, and then they went back to work, but within the next few days, uh, almost everybody was laid off. They no longer needed warships, so.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So that was the end of it.

SADY SULLIVAN: And was that everyone, or was it they laid off the woman, or how...? You know.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I -- I don't know. But the majority were left, uh, uh, was -- you know, were let, uh -- let go from work, because they no longer needed thousands of people, you know. So I -- I guess they only kept the certain people that they really did need until they closed it, which was many years later.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: And so what did your sister -- How did she feel about, um, having her work there end?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Well, everybody was glad that the war was over.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Everybody was jubilant. Uh, we had street parties, and 23:00everything. You should -- It was really a big affair. Uh, certain blocks, the people in that one block would chip in, and you'd put banners across the fire escapes, and, uh, they would have some soft drinks. And my block had some group of people that played music in -- in the -- in the street there. But, you know, everybody had their own, you know -- their own little block parties.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Every -- Everybody celebrated.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, and what did your sister do for work after the Yards?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I believe she went back to, uh, working in an office --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- and so that's all she did.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So she didn't continue college, so she went back to work.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, okay. So she didn't -- She didn't go back to become a teacher?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: No, no, uh, because of my, uh -- there was only my mother working -- my older sister working, and there was my youngest sister and I growing up, and no man in the house, so two checks were better than one check. 24:00You know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So that's the way we were -- things went.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. Yeah. And then -- So you were telling me before, but not in this recording, um, that your sister has lived in Mexico City for a long time?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. What -- what happened was that -- she was going out with a, I -- I have to say Jewish [inaudible], because that's what they were.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: For some reason, she didn't pal with Italian, or Polish, or whatever, uh -- 'cause I think this was the group that they knew each other very well, so they always went out together, this group.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, I could tell you a couple of stories if you're wondering about. Uh, one time they went into this -- At that time, females were not allowed in bars, unless you were accompanied by a man.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So they were there in the city doing something -- whatever they were doing, and they passed this bar, and there's a, uh, bar/restaurant that was big, you know -- big celebrations going on for whatever -- during the war -- for whatever reason. And somehow there were a bunch of RAF off -- flying officers -- 25:00pilots being trained here, and somehow one came out, and said, "Why don't you come in and join us?" So she went -- they all went in. They joined in. They danced all night. They had a great time. And that was the end of that. You know. Every, everybody, everybody was very hospitable, and friendly, and outgoing in those days, you know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, uh, that, and I remember that. And I remember another time she said, "One we thought that was being drafted--" -- I don't know if it was for the Navy, or out of where -- uh, she was very friendly with, and she -- he said to her, "I'll write you, and keep in contact..." blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. But he never did for whatever reason. Maybe he forgot -- didn't have the address right -- maybe he died. We don't know. But it's just one of those points in life, you know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. Um, and so how did she -- how did she end up living in 26:00Mexico City?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, eventually -- as -- as they went -- ahe went out with her girlfriends, uh, they went to dances, and parties, and they went to some type of a diplomatic government party where there were some Mexican officials -- This was in New York.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm!

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And she, uh, was introduced to this one fellow, and he continuously asked her to dance all night long -- all night long, and then they corresponded, and then they became serious, and he came to the U.S., uh --

SADY SULLIVAN: He was from Mexico?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: He was from Mexico City.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, he left. He left the Diplomatic Corps. He came to New York. Got a job, and they got married. And they had no children for quite a few years, and then -- I -- I'm assuming -- I'm just guessing, because of his -- his speech, uh, uh, what do you call it? The speech, uh -- what's the other word? He 27:00had an accent.

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh-huh.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And for some reason, he was not able to get a job -- a good quality job.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: At least I'm guessing, because I -- I don't ask him questions, you know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, uh, after many years, they planned to, uh -- He said, "I can get a better job in Mexico City." So she says, "Okay, uh, we'll go to Mexico City, and we'll live down there." In those days, you followed your husband.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So she didn't want to argue -- well she -- no, she didn't -- she didn't mind going. There were a couple of reasons she told me, "One reason we went was, I didn't want children to grow up in Brooklyn." Because we -- we -- you -- we grew up in Brooklyn in the street, in the gutters.

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh-huh.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, there were no other parks around us, you know, so we played in the street.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, so she didn't want that. And she said, "Youth, uh -- The 28:00young people here grow up too fast."

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So they went there, [inaudible]. They saved their money. He bought an old jalopy. I think was a 1939 Pontiac. An old car. And they filled it up with as much furnishings as they could. And you're not going to believe what they did.

SADY SULLIVAN: What'd they do?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: They drove from New York -- Brooklyn, New York to Mexico City.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, amazing! What year would that have been?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I don't know. I -- I can find out, but I just don't remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Would it have been in the '50s, or...?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: No. Uh, no,h, way before that, because I was in the service in the '50s.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, okay. So the '40s?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: It had to be. Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. Can you, huh -- a piece of junk he drove down there, and he's not a speeder, and she can't drive. But he took his maps, and he went all the way down to Mexico City.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow! What an adventure!

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Eh, it had to be a couple of weeks on the road.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: It had to be a couple of weeks.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: An old jalopy. I remember --

SADY SULLIVAN: So it sounds to me like your sister was quite an adventurous woman.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: No. She wasn't.

SADY SULLIVAN: Really?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Oh, I -- That was her husband. That's where they decided to raise children -- buy a home.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: But I have to add that when she got into Mexico City, they pulled up in front of their house, or apartment -- wherever they had to stay --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- the car stopped, and wouldn't start after that. It wouldn't start. It had a lot of mileage. It was an old, uh, junk box. I don't -- I --

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, so it made it all the way to Mexico, but no further. [laughter]

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. They had trouble after that, any -- eventually, they just left it in a driveway.

SADY SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GEORGE MARTINEZ: She finally sold it to some old guy, you know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And I know that we have a picture of her sitting with my younger sister, uh, on the -- on the tail of the, uh, old, old car. It was an 30:00old Pontiac, I think.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: But she's still there, and her two children grew up and went to college there. They're -- and they're bi-lingual -- English and Spanish. They come here to the U.S. every so often.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. Both of them speak it, and write it, and read it, and everything. You know. Though she -- she spoke -- obviously she spoke English --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- and she also taught English down there to her private tutor -- uh, pupils -- pupils.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: She taught them English, so.

SADY SULLIVAN: And how were you -- Did -- How was your communication? Did you guys write letters? How did you stay in touch?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. Well, we always wrote letters. I still write to my sister.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I write to her. Every week, um, I -- I send. She likes -- She says she's so far away, she doesn't get news from the U.S.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Every week I collect it, interesting articles out of both papers.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I still get the Daily News from Brooklyn.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I cut interesting clippings of -- of everything, and I mail it. I put them in an envelope, and I mail them every week to her.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, that's so nice.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: She loves to read them.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: It could be a cat with three legs, or it could be an astronaut who doubles up on ice cream. Whatever it is.

SADY SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GEORGE MARTINEZ: That Hollywood information. I said in the letter, "Hollywood, which is no longer with us."

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Actors and actresses.

SADY SULLIVAN: Hm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I sent her a clipping on Doris Day, and Cyd Charisse. You know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: They don't get that information there, so.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, and did she ever -- did she -- How -- How much do you think she talks about having worked in the Yards as a welder?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Well --

SADY SULLIVAN: Was that something that she would talk about?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: No. She doesn't talk too much about it, because they -- where she lives, for fifty-odd years, they don't know what the Brooklyn Navy Yard is.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: They -- they don't know too much about World War II. In -- in fact, our young people here know very little about World War II.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I asked my grandchildren who are thirty, thirty-one, whatever, "What do you know about World War II?" "I don't know. It was some kind of a war."

SADY SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GEORGE MARTINEZ: That's what they would tell me.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And I want -- and I -- I -- I still watch World War II documentaries. And one day my grandson was very young. No. My son was very young. Well, I'm watching it, and he says, "Pa, but who are those guy -- bad guys?" See, they don't tell -- teach you that in school anymore. They -- they're very -- They don't even touch on World War II, you know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: They don't touch on, [inaudible] other country, they don't -- they don't mention it, which is one of those things about history.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: You don't find it in German history books. You don't find it in Japanese, so. Yeah. As people -- as far as people are concerned, we were the bad guys that, uh -- that went to World War II. You know. That's why you won the war, is that we're the bad guys.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. [laughter] You talk to them. You -- you'll hear it. You had to need to drop an atomic bomb. There was no need to do that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: That's what they're telling us. But what are you doing to do?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, yeah, and -- and then you talk -- you go into politics. Well, you stopped -- you stopped Hitler at the last minute. You stopped, uh -- Hirohito at the last minute. But why didn't you stop the Khmer Rouge, the Pol Pot? Why didn't you stop them?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Which we didn't, you know. But this is part of history.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, you went into Sudan, but you didn't go to Pol Pot who killed millions of people in Cambodia, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So, you know. That's the way it is.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Uh, what else would you like to know, dear? I -- I'd tell you anything you want to know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, did you sister use any of the skills that she learned in the Navy Yards -- ?GEORGE MARTINEZ: No.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- like welding at home?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: No. No. Not at all.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Not at all. And, uh, once -- that skill for a female would not -- you would not get a job doing that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: You -- They wouldn't hire you for a girl. People don't. They just wouldn't hire you.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I -- I don't think. Yeah, maybe now they might hire you if you were good enough, but even then, you know. Uh, let me see. Down the corner there was the air raid warden. We used to have air raids a couple of times a year -- every -- all the lights were blacked out.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So I -- I -- I tried to be a warden, but I was one year too young.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And you would wear an arm band, and you would run out with the siren, and you had certain blocks that you would cover, and -- and watch while somebody put on lights in the house, or a cigarette, or whatever, you know. And you had all these posters, you know. And -- In that little office. But I couldn't be an air raid warden. I was too young for that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: But I was a World War II fanatic, anyway. I still collect World War II memorabilia, especially aircraft. I'm an aircraft nut.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And I have them hanging in my room, here. I got a bunch of them. Yeah. I got a Spit Fire, a B17, B29, and some other big, big photos, uh, 35:00prints I have. I still collect them. I still watch on TV.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, and what do you -- are you retired now?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yes. I'm retired now.

SADY SULLIVAN: And what did you do?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I worked for the United Postal Service for, uh, thirty-four years.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, wow.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. Yeah. Thirty-four years.

SADY SULLIVAN: That's great.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yup.

SADY SULLIVAN: And are you enjoying, um, retirement?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yes. I retired about, uh, fourteen years ago.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, wow.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I had, uh -- I had time, and I really didn't want to retire, because I had, uh -- I was top seniority, you know, so I could get any job I wanted.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. I was working days. I did have a little -- had to load the trailers. I was a trailer driver. Some of the places I went to you had to load physically.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: It didn't bother me, but a lot of my friends said, "No. No. No. I don't -- I don't load trailers." So, whatever. You know. They went on nights 36:00strictly driving. I was on the road for a number of years.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And I, you know -- we went five hours out, and five back, so that -- that -- that I enjoyed very much, you know. Being away from the bosses.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: That was great.

SADY SULLIVAN: Being on your own.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: On your own. You see the sights. Uh, it was really nice. I enjoyed that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I enjoyed that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So you rode four hundred miles a day, but it was very nice.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: I enjoyed it. The -- the -- the trailers -- the tractors stunk. They had -- they didn't have too much springs in them -- no air conditioning, the heater sweated, uh, no power steering. It -- it was hell to back up those things.

SADY SULLIVAN: No power steering for such a big truck?

GEORGE MARTINEZ: No. Your arms killed you when you finished pulling.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: It was terrible. Well, if you ever drove -- Did you ever drive a -- a -- a automobile without power steering?

SADY SULLIVAN: I have, actually. Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: It hurts.

SADY SULLIVAN: It's -- well, it made me good at parallel parking. [laughter]

GEORGE MARTINEZ: See, in, in those days, what -- the first cars that we got, they didn't have power steering --

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- and if you did want it, it costs you a fortune. But every time you went to back up, oh, it -- it was terrible --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: -- and tight. In Brooklyn, the spots were very, uh, tight. So if you could get in, you had to go back and forth ten, fifteen, twenty times to -- to get yourself in -- in that little spot.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: There was no power steering. When you finished, you were sweaty.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And we didn't have automatic transmissions, because they were very expensive.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yup.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So you had a clutch job. Same as my trailer.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And your -- your leg killed you. You get on the parkways, and traffic -- stop and go, stop and go. You're leg killed you. But that was a part of the game.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: So now I have automatic transmissions, and I have air conditioning in my -- all my cars.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: And even -- I have central air in my house. You know? [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: It's comfortable. [laughter]

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Yeah. But I had to wait for many years for that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: You know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. Well, it has been great talking to you. I really appreciate you sharing your memories of your sister, and then also of -- of Williamsburg, and other things, too. It's been really good. Um, I will send you a copy of this interview, and then also maybe if we have some, um, I could -- if we have some questions I can maybe write out --

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Any questions you have.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- for your sister than you could send along to her.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Any question you want, no matter how little or big, I'll be glad to -- to get an answer for you.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. That'd be great.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: All right?

SADY SULLIVAN: All right. Thank you so much.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Okay. Take care now.

SADY SULLIVAN: You too.

GEORGE MARTINEZ: Okay. Bye-bye.

SADY SULLIVAN: Bye.