Eleanor Capson

ELEANOR CAPSON: Hello?

SADY SULLIVAN: Hi, is this Eleanor?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, that's it.

SADY SULLIVAN: Hi, it's Sady from the Brooklyn Historical Society, how are you?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I'm just fine, how are you?

SADY SULLIVAN: Good. Is now still a good time for the interview?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Great. Um so just so you know, I'm recording.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: And um this interview will be part of the Brooklyn Historical Society's archives and the Brooklyn Navy Yard archives.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um is that all right? Do I have your permission to record?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes I-I presume that you're not going to ask me anything that will incriminate me. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: No. [laughter] Definitely not, but if, you know, if the-the interview is yours --- this is your time so if there is something that you want to not be included in the archive, when we're done with the interview you can 1:00say, you know, "take that part out."

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um and --- so there's a release form that I'll-that I'll mail to you ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: To sign and mail back.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um but we can-we can do all that in the end. Um so to begin recording um I will just uh formally start the interview --- today is November 3, 2009. Uh my name is Sady Sullivan with the Brooklyn Historical Society. This interview is for the Brooklyn Navy Yard oral history project and I am on the phone with Eleanor Capson. Um so if you would introduce yourself to the recording however you'd like.

ELEANOR CAPSON: My name is Eleanor Capson and I agreed to do an interview for the Brooklyn Historical Society on the Navy Yard.

SADY SULLIVAN: Thank you. Um and for the-for the archives, what's your date of birth?

ELEANOR CAPSON: [date redacted for privacy] '22.

SADY SULLIVAN: And where were you born?

ELEANOR CAPSON: New York City.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And tell me about your parents.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh what would you like to know about them?

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh were they born in New York?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Oh, one was born in New York and one was born in Vienna, Austria.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Uh so who was-who was who?

ELEANOR CAPSON: My daughter --- my-my mother was born here in New York and my father was born in Vienna, Austria and came here when he was six years old, which was in 1905.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mmm. And I assume since he was so young that he came with his family.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, he came with his parents and his-his brother and two sisters.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And um how about your mom; when did her family come to New York?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh I'm not sure of when they came. As long as I knew they were here ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: So it-it must have been probably the early 1900s ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Because all her brothers and sisters were born in this country.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and do you have siblings?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I-I-I have a sister.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Great. Um and right now -- I forgot to say this in the beginning --- so I'm calling --- you're in Florida right now?

ELEANOR CAPSON: That's correct.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. So let's go to the Navy Yard. Um how did you come to work at the Navy Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: When I finished college I was looking for a job that I could go to and I think I took a civil service examination at the time and that's how I ended up at the Navy Yard.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and so where were you at college?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I went to Brooklyn College in Brooklyn, New York.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And what did you study?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I majored in science; I got a BS in science.

SADY SULLIVAN: And um how did you choose science?

ELEANOR CAPSON: How did I choose what?

SADY SULLIVAN: How did you choose science as a major?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I liked it very much --- I liked the biological sciences the best and I took them in hopes of teaching them in high school.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And where did you go to high school?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Erasmus Hall High School in Brooklyn.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And did you like it?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Did I like what, the high school?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, I liked the high school very much.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um so after you graduated, how did you know to take the civil service exam?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well anyone who read newspapers, you know, knew that if you wanted to find a job you-you use the newspapers. And so I took two civil service exams because I worked for six months before the Brooklyn Navy Yard --- I worked for the U.S. Signal Corps in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, what was that about?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well we-we --- it was testing various um equipment relating to sound and light and I did that; I graduated from school June '42 and I worked for the U.S. Signal Corp from July '42 to December '42. Uh then I wanted to take my master's degree so I would be prepared for teaching ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And I wanted to come back to um to New York ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And uh that-that's what I did and then I accepted the job in the Brooklyn Navy Yard and then uh Thursday nights and Saturdays I went to Columbia for my master's degree.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh and what was your master's in?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh also in-in the biological and-and education field.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And so where were you living at that time?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I was living in Brooklyn.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. What neighborhood did you grow up in?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh in Flatbush.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um so how did you find out that you had the --- that you got a job at the Navy Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: They probably sent --- probably came for an exam, passed the exam and got a letter telling me to report there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And was that --- uh were you excited about that? Were you happy about it?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well I was glad that I had a job. It wasn't exactly what I had hoped to do with my life.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And so what was the position that you were hired for at the Navy Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well at the Navy Yard I worked in the materials testing laboratory.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ooh. Um tell me more about what you did there.

ELEANOR CAPSON: We tested the tensile strength of various materials that were used on ships. And the other thing that we did was to try to figure out what 7:00could be put on the insulation of the wires on ships so that they did not get moldy.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mmm. And so did your science background uh help you with that-with that work?

ELEANOR CAPSON: To a degree --- not-not to any great degree but to some degree. You just had to test out various chemicals and uh apply them to wires and-and submerge them in water and see how the results would-would turn out.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, so how long would -- how long would that experiment take?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Oh, it-it took several weeks, I --- you know, I don't know exactly the-the length of time but several weeks. And I worked there from January '43 to September '43 and then I got a teaching job and so I left the Navy Yard.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ah. And so did you have --- while you were doing that work, did 8:00you have the feeling that um that your work was part of the war effort?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, I-I felt that it was part of the war effort; I mean I was glad for that. Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And who were you working with?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well I was working with an office, it was about six people in the office.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And it had a few rooms --- you know, they had a testing laboratory and a-and a main room, et cetera.

SADY SULLIVAN: And um and what were your co-workers like?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Oh in various backgrounds. I mean some had been to college, some had not. There was a secretary, so it was um a varied kind of background. We all were paid by the year; we were not hourly employees.

SADY SULLIVAN: You were paid by the year?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: How does that work?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well I think we got paid once a month and uh if I remember, the 9:00yearly salary was 2,000 dollars a year.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh. And so was that-was that considered better than being --- than-than working by the hour?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh I don't know; as a matter of fact the people who worked by the hour probably made more.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: But this was considered, I suppose, a higher level, I don't know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Um and --- so was it-was it men or women or-or ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Both.

SADY SULLIVAN: Or mixed? It was mixed.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yeah, there-there were men and women in the office.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Probably something like two men and four women.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And was it --- at-at that time was it --- um the fact that you had a uh a BS in Science, uh was that-was that pretty unique for a woman?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh well not for my friends it wasn't unique; most of us had gone to college and either we majored in science and got our BSs or if we majored in 10:00the humanities or social sciences we got our BAs.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh I don't think that we need it as much as we probably knew uh to do the work in the Navy Yard.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And was that --- did you feel that the Navy Yard --- did they know the kind of knowledge and experience that you had that you brought to the job?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I pre-presume so because, you know, uh --- you fill out a form with-with your background so I-I presume so. But this was the job so no matter what knowledge you had, this was the job that they had the vacancy for and they paid you according to the civil service laws.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So what was like a-a typical day for you there?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I really don't remember exactly; I mean you would come in and then you would be told what assignment you had for the day and you test certain materials part of the day and maybe part of the day you worked on this experiment that I told you about and uh that-that was most of what we did.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And did you enjoy it?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh not really. I-I-I didn't find it stimulating enough.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know, it gets to be repetitious --- I mean if you are testing the strength of materials hour after hour, day after day that is not as exciting as I thought that teaching in a school would be.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Sometimes that was too exciting but an-anyway that was it, yeah. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: So while you are working at the Yard you were getting your master's at Columbia?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, I was. I was doing that Thursday nights and Saturdays; I took eight credits a semester so I --- in two years I was able to get my master's.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh wow. So was that hard to do while you are working full-time?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yeah, I suppose it was, but, you know, when you're young you don't think of these things. Now I couldn't do it but then I could. Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And um what about transportation --- you are living in Flatbush and working at the Navy Yard and getting your master's at 12:00Columbia, how did you-how did you get around?

ELEANOR CAPSON: The train.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and what were your hours like at the Navy Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh I think we worked five days a week something like from nine to five but you also, if I remember clearly, had shifts there and I think you had the daytime shift or the nine to five --- I-I think that nine --- maybe-maybe eight to four, four to twelve and twelve to eight.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh that's what I think that-that I remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And so -- yeah I've heard about that --- about the round-the-clock shifts like that.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: So when were you --- was that -- that worked all right with your-with your work --- your school schedule?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well it was sort of--it was sort of difficult, you know, and it was hard to adjust to the night shift and stuff but, you know, for the most part 13:00uh I took most of my credits on a Saturday so, you know, it-it works out okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um what building uh did you work in? Do you ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: I don't remember; I think it was on Cumberland Street ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: But I-I couldn't tell you what building.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And so when you came into the Yard, what was your --- you know, once you-once you got to the Navy Yard area what --- how did you get to where you were actually working?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I don't-I don't remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know, I must have gotten off the train somewhere and then walked to wherever the office was.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You have to remember, this was 1943.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: That was fifty-seven -- sixty-six years ago.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: That's a while ago.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh I understand. [laughter]

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um and did you --- so some of the people that I've spoken with have --- they were, you know, their jobs were pretty messy and so they would go 14:00into a-a changing room and change into work clothes; did you have to do that?

ELEANOR CAPSON: No, no. Not-not --- the hourly workers I guess had more of that than we did.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know, we-we didn't have that-that much of a mess.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. So you could wear your usual street clothes?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Your usual clothes, I mean --- I-I don't remember; it's possible that I had a smock of some kind, you know, that I wore over my clothes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And so the-the way that-that I got your phone number and that we're having this conversation is through your friend Helen David ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: That's correct. We went to both high school and college together.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. And so --- and you also both worked at the Navy Yard.

ELEANOR CAPSON: That's right. I got out a little before she did, so I got a job there before she did.

SADY SULLIVAN: And so did she-did she apply for a job there because you were there?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Probably.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um but you were working in different departments, 15:00is that --

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes. She was an hourly worker and I was a yearly worker.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Although we had the same education, the same background.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um in-in science as well?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, so why --- how did she --- how did that work out?

ELEANOR CAPSON: It must have been what was available at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know, if they had a vacancy for hourly workers, you-you took that. If-if it was uh, you know, it's by the year, you took that. Whatever was available you took.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And um was there-was there a feeling about that, like were you happy to get a job specifically at the Navy Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I was just happy to get a job anyplace.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh I was glad to be back in Brooklyn because then I was able to go to school at night.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know, where is if I were in-in New Jersey it would have been more difficult for me to do.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: So I was happy to be uh near where I lived.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: And what did your family think about you working in the Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: They didn't think one way or the other much about it; they knew I wanted to be a teacher and that eventually when there would be a vacancy, I would leave and spend my whole life in teaching which I did.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And did you uh did you --- were you able to see Helen and um did you have like much social time at the Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Not-not at the Yard. No, we saw each other socially at home but-but not at the Yard because we didn't work in the same place.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um what about-what about lunchtime and-and break time, what would you do?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yeah, I --- as far as I remember there may have been a room where you had brought your lunch and you ate it in that room.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: But, you know, there were different lunchrooms in different buildings so our paths did not cross there as far as I remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um and what was the atmosphere at lunch?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I-I don't know how to even explain that. Everybody was sitting; they were glad that-that they had a-a period of rest and they were glad to eat their lunch.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um were people friendly? Was there-was there -- did you split off into groups, like, you know, we work over here and those folks work there, how did that ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yeah, well people always, you know, have-have-have friends with whom they-they like to eat, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and who was your supervisor in the lab?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I don't remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: I think it was a man but I don't remember his name.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And how would you describe the racial or cultural mix where you worked?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I think it was all White.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh the cultures may have been different, I-I know one-one --- the secretary was Irish; I don't know about the others.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: I just don't remember. Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um what about the-the Yard in general, did it --- how did it seem in terms of uh like a cultural mix of people?

ELEANOR CAPSON: It seemed like a vast cultural mix of people.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know, especially when people got off the boats, then you had a whole mix of everybody.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. The sailors you mean?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And --- so would you-would you get to see the boats, how-how was your ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well from time to time, you know, you would go out and a boat had landed and then you would see the --- it being unloaded and people getting off, you know, who may not have been on-on land for several months and uh their joy in being at a place finally, that-that was interesting.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um I've heard that-that the sailors would hang out on Sands Street a lot, did you know --- did you have experiences on Sands Street?

ELEANOR CAPSON: What street did you say?

SADY SULLIVAN: Sands.

ELEANOR CAPSON: How do you spell it?

SADY SULLIVAN: S-A-N-D-S.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Sands Street uh somehow doesn't ring a bell in my mind.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um how would you describe the mix of men and women working in the Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I-I really can't tell you about the Yard; I-I told you in my office ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: There-there were two men and four women, that's all I-I could tell you.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um and was there a sense that this was --- I mean it seems --- was there a sense that this was a-a-a job opportunity for women that was particular to the-to the war effort or was this a job that would have been open to women prior to that time?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Oh I don't know; I think this was a job that was-that was for anybody who met certain criteria --- I don't remember what the criteria were 20:00but-but-but that was it.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: I didn't think of it in terms of opportunities for women because as I said, I had taken an exam for teaching and I knew that when my name was reached that's where I would be going.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So you were really waiting -- while-while you were there, you're --- you were very much thinking about your next step?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, and the same with my friend Helen David ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Who spent her life in teaching.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, I actually --- I didn't realize that.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um so tell me, what did you do --- so September '43 uh what happened?

ELEANOR CAPSON: In September '43 I started my teaching career.

SADY SULLIVAN: And where was that?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh I started at Erasmus Hall where I had graduated from.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, that's wonderful.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um how was it to come back as a teacher?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Very interesting.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And I liked that and uh uh I was appointed --- I was a substitute at that time, then I was later appointed to uh a junior high school 21:00and then I was appointed after that --- I took various exams to be a regular teacher in a high school.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Than I became an assistant principal in a junior high and I became a principal of an elementary school in Brooklyn.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, what elementary school?

ELEANOR CAPSON: PS 198 on Farragut Road and Albany Avenue.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and so when did you --- when did you become --- when was that?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh I became a principal in 1968 to 1978; I retired in 1978. From '58 to '68 I was an assistant principal and from '43 to um '58 I was a teacher.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Wow.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And in-between of course I got married and had-had a child.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And did you stay living in Flatbush?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh yes, I lived there for most of my life.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know, until uh until I retired and then I moved to Riverdale in the Bronx.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: I sold --- we sold our house; we moved to Riverdale and Fort Lauderdale, Florida --- both places we've lived in at the same time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And-and are you in Fort Lauderdale now?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I'm in Pompano Beach now.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh okay.

ELEANOR CAPSON: That's a little north of Fort Lauderdale.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and what did your husband do?

ELEANOR CAPSON: My husband was a junior high school principal.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh okay, so you are both educators?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Between the two of us we spent seventy-five years in the New York City school system.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

ELEANOR CAPSON: I spent thirty-three and he spent forty-two.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: That's amazing.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um how wonderful. Do you-do you keep-keep track of the things that are going on now? There's a lot of debate about, you know, the mayoral 23:00control and ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Oh yes, I mean I read the Times every day ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: So I-I read a Florida paper and I read the Times so that I always know what's going on.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And um and what do you think about --- how-how has it --- how have things changed since you first started teaching?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well, the-the-the-the student body has changed considerably and uh, you know, for various reasons --- the single parent homes for drug problems, et cetera.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: So uh look it's hard for the present day teachers; it wasn't easy when I started although compared to today, it probably was easier.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um '68 is a-is a pretty tumultuous year to start being a principal.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: How was that?

ELEANOR CAPSON: It wasn't too bad. I-I, you know, it depends upon the area that you are in. It was not that I was in that good an area but I wasn't in that bad an area either.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And uh, you know, it was okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um what was the --- which school was it again, that you --

ELEANOR CAPSON: 198 on Farragut and Albany.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ah. So is that East New York?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, I guess you would call that East New York.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and did your-did your kid --- did you-did you say you have one child?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I have one child, yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: She teaches math and computer and lives in Kansas.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, she's a teacher also.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Pardon me?

SADY SULLIVAN: She's also a teacher.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes. Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: She's also a teacher and uh my grandchildren are not. My granddaughter is a journalist, my grandson is a doctor.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, and do they live in Kansas as well?

ELEANOR CAPSON: My granddaughter lives in Kansas; my grandson uh lives in New 25:00York and probably will stay there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh okay and --- but your daughter, did she grow up --- she grew up in New York?

ELEANOR CAPSON: She grew up in New York, yes ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: But when she got married, her husband had a job opportunity and uh so she moved first to Milwaukee and then to uh uh then to Kansas.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And then she stayed there and made her network of friends and got her job in teaching.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: She had taught for a short time in New York before that occurred.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um oh I forgot to ask, so when you were teaching, you were --- I assume you were teaching science.

ELEANOR CAPSON: I was teaching biology.

SADY SULLIVAN: Biology, okay.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: And how did that --- how did biology as a subject um for a high school student and junior high students, how did that change over the-the course 26:00of your career?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I don't-I don't know if it changed particularly; I mean of course the material had to come up-to-date with-with new discoveries in science. But I don't know if the actual teaching changed that much, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um this is uh sort of going-going back to your first job at the U.S. Signal Corps um ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, in Fort Monmouth, New Jersey.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah, that sounds really interesting. So what kind of --- what was your-what was your --- what were you doing there with sound and light equipment?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well we were using the sound and light equipment uh for various tasks. For example, we would stand on railroad tracks three miles apart and we were trying to determine the smallest light that could be used so that you could send the Morse Code over a distance without its being intercepted by the enemy.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

ELEANOR CAPSON: So, you know, first you would start out with a big light and 27:00then your com -- your compatriot would get the message perfect. Then it would give --- get a little smaller and maybe they would still get it perfect, and then when they started getting it garbled, then we knew we couldn't use a light that was any smaller than that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And it was --

SADY SULLIVAN: So what was the smallest --- like what in terms of size, how was --- what was the smallest that you were using?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I don't remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um light --- I mean did it fit in your hand or ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Oh yes, mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know, light travels very far; if you recall, during air raid drills here at one time you had to put out your cigarettes because the cigarette light could be seen for miles.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh my goodness.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes. Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: So these were really little lights?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: okay. Um one of the things that-that is sort of a mystery in the-in the Navy Yard now is that there's a building that has on top of it these --- this big --- these two big antennas that are connected. Do you-do you 28:00remember that or have any idea what that could have been about?

ELEANOR CAPSON: No, no remembrance.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um it's really curious, it's still there and I mean it obviously was some kind of communications hub but we don't --- we haven't found out what was going on.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Oh yeah. No, no I honestly don't know. You know I-I'd get off the train, walk to my job, leave and then uh a few days a week take the train uptown to take my courses and then come home dead tired and the next day repeat the whole thing, you know? Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um are there-are there things that you remember in terms of the sights or smells or sound that-that really remind you of the Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: No.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Uh, what was your worst experience at the Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I --- again I don't know; I wouldn't say that-that there was either a best or a worst experience.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You know, it was just a job; we were happy to have it. Did it 29:00each day until what we had planned for came along.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And I'm sure that there are people in our office that-that this was like-like the-the last step, you know, the highest accomplishment that maybe they could make.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Would um --- did having worked in the Yard come up uh when you were teaching with your students or anything?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Not really.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Did you um --- the-the idea --- this-this oral history project started focusing on um women working in the Yards, because of the women 30:00welders and-and-and that opening of that kind of career track for women, well for that time and that ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well that-that was not sort of the department that I was in.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

ELEANOR CAPSON: The women welders were in a different category from-from what we were called, you know; I guess we were the white collar workers.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: So I really didn't have anything to do with-with-with them.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Were you aware of them?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well I was aware, you know, that different kinds of people worked at the Yard doing various jobs.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and was there --- so was there a sense of-of what-what was happening in the Yard as a whole that there was, you know, 75,000 people working there and all --- you know, what was that atmosphere like that it was such --- so much going on?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I really don't know if we thought that much about it.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: We just did our jobs and went home, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And were you-were you living with your parents at that time?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, I was living with my parents; I was not yet married.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: I didn't get married until after I-I taught for one year.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh okay, so what year did you get married?

ELEANOR CAPSON: 1944 I was married.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay, and what's your --- is --- what's your --- your uh maiden name?

ELEANOR CAPSON: My maiden name was B-E-I-L-E-R. B as in boy. B-E-I-L-E-R.

SADY SULLIVAN: Beiler, is that or ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Beiler is how you pronounce it, yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Beiler --

ELEANOR CAPSON: Eleanor Beiler.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and so you were working in Brooklyn as a teacher or at this point I-I --- well just I think you were assistant principal in 1966, is that right? That's the year ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh '59 --- '59 to '69 I became an assistant principal. '59 to 32:00'69, it --- and-and then the next ten years I was a principal.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And then I retired.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: But between '44 and '59 I was a teacher.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um did you remember hearing about the Navy Yard uh being decommissioned and closing in the '60s?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I think I had read about it in the newspaper and, you know, for a moment I was sad that this was happening.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: I hate to hear of anything, you know, that was performing a good job uh closing.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um so you were teaching when-when the war ended?

ELEANOR CAPSON: That is correct, yes, I was at Erasmus Hall High School as a biology teacher when the war ended.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And what --- do you remember when you found out about the news?

ELEANOR CAPSON: I think I heard it probably on the radio and of course the next 33:00day I remember being on hall patrol and anybody who uh was wandering in the hall after the bell rang is supposed to get detention, and I stopped a few kids and I said to them, "I'm not giving anybody detention today, the war is over."

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And was --- what was the student --- the attitude among the students?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Well they were delighted because a lot of the eighteen year-olds, you know, were called to serve.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh yeah. Mmm. What about um --- this is bouncing a little bit I just was reminded of what the service -- there was Marines at the --- that were stationed at the gate; do you remember the security about --- of the Yard?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, I remember that vaguely ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Because I remember being stopped and if we had some kind of package we had to open it and uh I remember once having a big package; uh it was 34:00an engagement present that the office had given me and it was a black nightgown and the Marines made me open the package and they held it up for everybody to see to my acute embarrassment.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh yeah. [laughter] Oh.

ELEANOR CAPSON: [laughter] But somebody else, I understand, had taken a-apart piece-by-piece each day of a various important kind of a machine, you know, so that I guess that's why they had to do this.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and --- so was there --- so there must have been a line for --

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, when you went out there was a line; you know, you had to pass through the line.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and did you have-did you have a wedding when you got married?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Oh sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: A big wedding with 200 guests.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh wow, where was it?

ELEANOR CAPSON: It was at the Park Manor in Brooklyn, New York.

SADY SULLIVAN: And how did you and your husband meet?

ELEANOR CAPSON: We met at a science fair at the Hotel Astor.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh wow.

ELEANOR CAPSON: He was demonstrating --- he was a teacher already and I was a-a senior at Brooklyn College ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And I went to the fair to see what it was like and we got to talking and we met each other that way and continued for over fifty years.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. And um is he from Brooklyn also?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. From the same neighborhood or where is ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: No, he was in a different neighborhood.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: He came from what they would call East Flatbush.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um so when you were teaching, were you living mostly --- 36:00you were --- until you moved to Riverdale you were --- were you living in Flatbush?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, uh when I first started teaching I was living with my parents; I wasn't married yet.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Once I was married then I moved to another place in Brooklyn. I didn't move to Riverdale until 1988, which was after I had retired.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um and so when you lived in another place in Brooklyn that was --- was it the same neighborhood as-as your parents?

ELEANOR CAPSON: Uh no, I sort of moved -- er uh it-it was all in Brooklyn; let's say it was in the same borough ---

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And the first time I changed boroughs was when I moved to Riverdale.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: But we had a house in Brooklyn and when we sold the house, we-we bought an apartment in Riverdale and an apartment in Florida.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um let's see if I have other Navy Yard questions; I think you answered all of my Navy Yard questions. Um thank you very much for-for doing this interview.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You're very welcome.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um and so I have eh a release form to mail to you ---

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: So I'm --- what is your mailing address?

ELEANOR CAPSON: [address redacted for privacy] 913 is the apartment number.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

ELEANOR CAPSON: It's Pompano Beach, Florida, 33062.

SADY SULLIVAN: All right. Um well I will send that out and you can mail it back 38:00to me and uh the-the Navy Yard Archives --- um this will go right into the Archives and then the History Center, which is going to show all of the work that was done in the Yard um since the 1800s to the '60s when it was decommissioned and then up through now there's-there's all kinds of um light industry that happens in the Yard now. Um so that history center is going to open in a couple of years and-and these interviews will be part of the exhibit, so I will be sure to let you know when that happens.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes, well if it's in a number of years, I don't know if you'll be able to let me know because I was born in 1922 if you know what I mean. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: [laughter] I do.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um but you sound very good, so I think -- [laughter]

ELEANOR CAPSON: So did I tell you everything you asked me?

SADY SULLIVAN: Yes. Yes you did.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um yes, well thank you very much.

ELEANOR CAPSON: You're very welcome and then I'll be expecting to hear from you.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yes.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Okay?

SADY SULLIVAN: Great, thank you.

ELEANOR CAPSON: And lots of luck.

SADY SULLIVAN: Thanks.

ELEANOR CAPSON: Bye.

SADY SULLIVAN: Bye.