Clayton Colefield

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Hello?

SADY SULLIVAN: Hello, is this Mr. Colefield?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Hi. Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Hi, this is Sady, from the Brooklyn Historical Society.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: So, is now still a good time to do the interview?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, fine.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay, great. Uh --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: The only thing I ask is, uh, would you speak a little slower and a little bit louder? [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Sure thing. Yes.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay. [laughter] Oh well.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, I am recording this interview for the archives --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- and so I just wanted to make sure that we have on the recording that we have your permission to record.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay, great. Um, and so also for the recording, I'm just going to say that, um, today's date is October 6, 2009, and I'm Sady Sullivan with the Brooklyn Historical Society. This interview is part of the Brooklyn Navy Yard Oral History Project. And --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes, mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- if you would introduce yourself to the recording, however you'd like to do that.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay. Uh, my name is Clayton, C-L-A-Y-T-O-N, C. Colefield, C-O-L-E-F-I-E-L-D.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And for the record, what's your date of birth?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: [date redacted for privacy] 21.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, you just had a birthday.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Happy birthday.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And this is a good birthday present.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, good. Excellent. So, I -- just on your email, we're going to 2:00go, we're going to go back in time and do a bit of a chronological thing first. But I was really interested to read in your email that you visited, um, you visited the Missouri. So, can you --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes, mm-hmm, I did.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- start there, will you tell me about that, about visiting the Missouri?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yes. We took a trip to Hawaii and Honolulu, and with a friend of mine whose, uh, nephew was stationed out that way. So, uh, so we decided we'd go and visit the Missouri because it was so -- you know, I'd like to see it again and see what it looked like and so on. So, as we went aboard the ship, the officers on deck introduced themselves, and one of the officers said, "What would you like to know about this ship?" I said to him, "Well, what would you like to know about this ship, because I built it?" And he was, he was flabbergasted. He, uh, he says, "In all the years we've been doing this, you're the first one who came aboard and, uh, said he worked on the ship." So, I felt 3:00like a celebrity for two minutes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

[laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: How wonderful.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: And when, when was that? That was a couple years ago?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It was about three, about three years ago, I think. I could, I could verify it somehow. Not right away, but I, I was there about three years ago, three or four years.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And so how long had it been since you had seen the Missouri.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: About the same time. Oh, before that?

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah, until --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, the last time I saw it was when it was launched, uh, launched, uh, I guess -- I forget now. And then I haven't seen it again until, uh, this time visiting it at, uh, at, in Haw -- in Honolulu.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow, so it was launched in the '40s.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: And then you just went in, you know, 2005 or '04 or something?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah, that's right, yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: So that's a good sixty or so -- over sixty years.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm. And it looks good, you know. Everything I put up is still there. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: That's great. Um, all right. Well, good. Let's go, let's go back in time a bit, and then, then we'll get to the actual building of the Missouri because I'm, I'm really curious about that process.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, but -- so you were born in 1921. Where were you born?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, uh, Jamaica, I think. My, my father was a sea captain, and he traveled the world and, uh, he happened to be stationed down there at the time. And, uh, my mother was from Spain. She was Castilie. He met her there on his, one of his many ocean trips, and he was, uh, stationed in, in, in, in, uh, Jamaica at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh wow. When you first said that, I thought you meant Jamaica, Queens. But --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, no, no.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- you meant Jamaica.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Jamaica down south.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. [laughter] Wow. Um, so where was your dad from?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, I'm -- he was from, originally from England, I think.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, uh, he, his name, last name -- I imagine one time I think his ancestors or his grandfather, the name was Colefeld, and when they went to England, um, they changed it to Colefield --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- for some reason or other. I don't know why.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And, and what about your mom. What's, what's her background?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, she was, uh, from Castile, Spain.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: And, and so how -- why was she in Jamaica?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, he traveled, he was on the -- he was a captain on these merchant ships.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, he traveled the world with, on ships, so I guess when he went to, to, uh, to Europe, he probably met her over there somehow.

SADY SULLIVAN: And so, she traveled onboard ship with him?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, when they got married they, they came back to Panama, I think.

SADY SULLIVAN: And so, you were born in Jamaica, and then where did you, where did you grow up?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, let's see. I, uh, I think they -- we moved from Jamaica to New York City when I was about four years old, four or five years old.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Moved to the Bronx.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And, and --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: New York.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- do you know why, why that was -- why did you end up moving there?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, I guess he got tired of being a ship captain, and he went to work for the, uh, one of the Catholic, uh, hospitals up there as a, as a chief engineer, because they supplied all their power. So, he knew all about the, the huge generators they, they, uh, used to power the hospital lighting and whatever.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, because it was similar to the kind of generator that --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes. He, he was used to the -- he was used to the generators and machines, it was the same thing as, as it was on a ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And do you have siblings?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I have four children, a daughter and three sons.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, and --

SADY SULLIVAN: -- did you have brothers and sisters?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- right now, there's twenty-three grandchildren.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh! Wow!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It's a little rough at Christmas.

SADY SULLIVAN: I can imagine. Um, and so did you -- do you have -- how many parents -- I mean, how many kids did your parents have?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, myself and my brother, I think. No, they had a daughter also.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But I don't, I don't remember her because I was, I think I was too young when we left the islands, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, and did she not -- she didn't come with you?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, she was -- she stayed there to, um, to, uh, stay with her grandmother at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh! So, your, your grandparents -- which grandparents lived on, in Jamaica.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That was my, my mother's grandparents.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I don't know where my father's grandparents are.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, so you -- so you were in the Bronx when you were four years old. Is that where you went to elementary school?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yes, yes. 139th Street, I think, into one of the Catholic schools right there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Is your family Catholic?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Did they what?

SADY SULLIVAN:Is your family Catholic?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, and did you go to Catholic school for high school also?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, no. I was taken out of the, the, uh, the Catholic -- the, the elementary school, and we moved to a different address and I went to, to public school.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Do you remember what public school that was?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, hmm. PS, what? I forget now. It was in the Bronx anyway, around 140th Street.

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh-huh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, and what did you do after high school?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: After high school, uh, I went looking for a job at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Couldn't find one, and, uh, luckily, I went down to the -- in the Bronx, there was a, an asbestos/gypsum company to find my first job. But I didn't get it, and luckily, I didn't because I wouldn't be around right now. The ground around the gypsum plant was like snow from the asbestos powder.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, uh -- but even to this day, I, I still have a slight bit of asbestos in, in the, uh, in my system.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So then, uh, we went looking for jobs and stood five in a line to try and get a job at the time. This is around 1940s. And then, uh, one day we, we -- I managed to get a job, uh, in the, um, in a machine shop, uh, running, uh, lathes and, uh, and automatic machinery down there. So that's where 10:00I learned a little about that.

SADY SULLIVAN: And where was the machine shop?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Downtown New York.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Um, I, I can't remember the name right now.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Chatillon or something, I'm not sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But anyway, um, we had put applications in all over the place. Men at the aircraft factory used to stand in line about five deep trying to get a job at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And I did, we -- my friends and myself put a, um, application in the Navy Yard. And then one day I got home and, uh, there was an application, "Come down to the Navy Yard to work there." That was driving from, from the Bronx to Brooklyn every day.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So when I went, went down to the Navy Yard, I was employed and a friend of mine also, um, and then they put us out to where did we want to work and what type of work do we want to do, I, and said, well, I would like to work on a ship, I said, you know, building the ships.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And then, so being that I had good experience in high school 11:00with mechanical drawing, I was able to read the blueprints and nobody else could read the blueprints, so then I, they put me in charge of, uh, a group of guys, you know, uh -- you know -- after a few months, and I learned the work, uh, to do that on the ships. So, we worked on, uh, uh, the Iowa when it was almost finished, and then started the Missouri, uh, I guess it was around, uh, '40s, or '42, I forget now the exact date.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But, um, and I -- by the time I started to work on the ship, I was, I was an instructor at first, and then they made me a supervisor. Uh, then after that, uh, down the line I became a supervisor, supervisor or what they call a quarterman ship fitter.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, I had maybe 120 men and, and ten supervisors under me.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, um, it, it was dangerous work and everything -- nothing you picked up was under fifty pounds, at all.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But you know, we -- you had good physical opportunities 12:00there. So, anyhow, um, my arms used to look like Popeye's, if you know how Popeye with the cartoon?

SADY SULLIVAN: Yes.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay. What, uh, this -- I was pretty husky at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, uh, we finished up the Iowa, and then they started the Missouri, and I was there and with my crew, we put down the first keel plate on the ship. And then from there on, we worked -- my crew worked on different parts of the ship until it was finished.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. And so, explain, for people who don't know about ship building, explain what, um, what the keel plate is.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, the keel plate is a large plate, probably, uh, probably twenty by forty feet, and it was -- the bottom of the ship is made of, uh, several, uh, uh, steel plates of the same size to make the bottom of the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You know, the hull is -- that's what the hull is made of. But 13:00then, uh, in addition to that it had a second and a third hull, one inside the other. That was for protection during the, during the War, because the torpedoes couldn't, uh, would have a job penetrating three, three hulls at the same time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So -- and, and then we also did the armor plate on the ship, which is, was about sixteen inches thick and maybe twenty feet long and twenty feet high or thirty feet high, I forgot. But, uh, it was a huge piece of steel put down to, uh, keep the, the boiler rooms and engine rooms from being damaged if it was hit by a torpedo.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, then we finished that and then started, uh, other ships, uh, several carriers. I think one was the Constellation if I'm not mistaken.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, uh, also worked on destroyers and cruisers. And at one stage of the game they were, during the War, two destroyers came in, both damaged. One was damaged on the stern and the other one, uh, damaged at the bow. 14:00So, we put them both in the dry dock side by side and, uh, cut off the bad part of one section and the, and the stern of the other section, and the shipwrights, they moved the both halves together of the destroyer. So that's a 300 foot long ship and 150 feet, uh, of, of ship sliding together.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And they, um, they named the ship the Murphy because that, that was the name on the stern of the, of the good part of one of the ships. So, we built that. And then, uh, they, the junk was -- the wrecked parts were just, uh, salvaged and then, uh, made one ship out of two.

SADY SULLIVAN: That's really neat.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, and so, wow. I didn't know that that was even possible.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah, I didn't until -- I didn't know it either. I wouldn't believe it when I, you know, when I saw them move the ship. They move them, they move the parts together hydraulically, with hydraulic pumps. So anyway --

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. So, can you explain, um, also what, what those different kinds of ships are, what a carrier, a destroyer, and a cruiser?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, the destroyer was one of the smaller, uh, warships that they use. The -- first came the destroyers. They were fast, uh, ships, probably 300 feet long I think possibly. Then there went the cruisers, which were the next size up, and then the battleships, and then from there the carriers, aircraft carriers.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ah, so that's, that's going up in size, so aircraft carriers --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That's up in size, yes, mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- were the biggest?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Right.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: The carriers were almost 1,000 feet long, I think were 875 or something like that, I forget now.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And did you have a sense when you were working there that, that the work you were doing was part of the war effort?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, it definitely was. Every, every ship I worked on was in the War. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Yes.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And then we, we also did work on the ships that they used to send to troops from the Atlantic, from here over to the, over to Europe to, for the invasion. What'd they call them? LSTs. Landing ship, uh, troops, I guess they called them. And Kaiser used, uh, the big company used to build them in, uh, a short amount of time. So, we tried to keep up with them, uh, building those ships.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, we built a lot of those that we used in the invasion of, uh, Europe.

SADY SULLIVAN: Where was Kaiser based?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, I think he was out on the West Coast. I'm not, I don't remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And that was -- was that a private shipbuilding --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It was a private shipyard, yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, so can you tell me a little bit more about how, how you moved up from instructor to supervisor to quarterman?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, uh, as, as the War, uh, got more involved and they needed more people, they were hiring -- I think there were 85,000 people working 17:00in the Brooklyn Navy Yard at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, they, they had to be all supervised. So, they picked the, the people who could read the blueprints in order to make the work easier.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So being I had taken up, uh, industrial arts in high school and, uh, also learned how to read the blueprints, the, uh, it was easy for them to, to have me do the, that type of work. So that, I just became an instructor at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And I was instructing people how to put stuff together and parts together because I could read the blueprints and tell them where the parts went. So [laughter] anyway, so the ships were, were built in sections, and the sections were built in the shops in the huge, um, uh, covered areas. The shops were very large and big. They could hold, oh, huge sections of, of material --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- and very high so they could build them, high stuff if 18:00necessary. And, and, and they were transported out to the, out to the dry dock and out to the, what they called the ways; where the ships were built at one time before they built them in dry dock.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And they, um, so they would build these parts, you know, maybe thirty feet long and, um, eight feet wide, uh, and probably twenty or thirty feet high, and then they would ship them on railroad cars from the shops to where the ships were being constructed.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And then the cranes would lift them up, lift the parts up, and we would be in the area where the parts were going and we would direct the cranes to put the parts in the certain place where they belonged, and then we, we would secure them --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- so they wouldn't fall down or, uh, you know -- and secure them to, so, to existing structure so, so they would stay in place. And then my people would -- uh -- put stuff up that held the things in place, and then the 19:00welders would come along and weld the, weld the parts together.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So the, uh, the ships were built, a lot of it, it was done in the shops, and the outside construction where they couldn't build in the shops, uh, we then did that on the ways and in the dry docks.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, and so how do you -- when you're moving it, when the crane moves it into place, how do you do that initial securing?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, the, the crane would lift the parts and, and if they -- they were built maybe on their sides for easier construction in the shops. The crane would, uh -- we would put lifting pads on the parts. That's a piece of plate with a hole in it so they could hook a, a, a hook from a crane into those holes, and with turnbuckles and things like that. And, um, lift the parts, turn them the right side up, and then we'd bring it, move it to its place on the ways 20:00where the ships were being built.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, piece by piece, the, uh, they would complete the bottom section of the ship, and then as soon as it was done out far enough, they would start adding the sides to it.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So it's like, uh, a giant, uh, erecter set.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: [laughter] So -- only the parts weren't, uh, thin. They were very heavy and, and, and large.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. And so, tell me about the, about the cranes that was big enough to move these things.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, they, they could lift seventy-five tons.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, uh, when a lot of the ship was finished, they used to call -- they had to call a hammerhead crane over on, when the ships were placed in the water. And they could -- that, uh, crane could lift 300 tons.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: 300 and -- I think 375 tons it could lift, and it could swing around in all directions to pick up the stuff off the dock that was built and the put it on the ship where it belonged.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. So, what --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: -- kind of stuff was used, what kind of stuff was, was added like that by the hammerhead crane?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, any, any steel structure above the main deck that couldn't be, couldn't be built on the ways because the, the, it wasn't high enough to take the superstructure. So, they would, the parts would be sent from the shop to where, in the area of the hammerhead crane on railroad cars.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And then the railroad cars, uh, would be traveled across the Yard to where the, the hammerhead crane was. That was on the water, so they could lift it from the dock, swing around, and then put it in place on the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And the ship was, that was when the ship was already in the water?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes, mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And you know, not fully complete, like, like the upper superstructure was not done, uh, on the ways because they couldn't, they couldn't -- they were too high for the cranes to go above them to lift the parts 22:00in place.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, the parts had to be lifted after the ship was launched, or part of, part of it anyway, and then, uh, the rest of the up, superstructure and things like that would be built while the ship was in the water underneath the crane.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And so, what did the shipbuilding ways look like?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: The ways?

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well actually, it's a, it's a long, tapered runway. In other words, they build, uh, a wooden -- not wood, but a block platform the length of the ship, uh, on land, and then the part of it was down towards the water. It was like a, a huge table that all the parts were put on, and the table was built of blocks of, of wood.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Probably, um, four foot blocks, I think they were, probably four or five feet high, I forget.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But they would, uh, they would lay the plates on those blocks and there in the right position for the ship, and then as the parts were, uh, 23:00uh, continued, they would remove some of the blocks and build a cradle to hold the ship up on the ways, and the cradle would, uh, would hold the ship when it was built and then it would slide down into the water. It was, was, it was built on an, an angle going to -- from the, from the bow to the stern, it was probably, uh, maybe 10 foot difference. I don't, I forget now. So, the ship would slide down these ways and go into the water by itself.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Pushed by hydraulic pumps.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, you're bringing back a lot of memories, you know. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: I know! Well, I'm so -- this is wonderful. You remember the details so well, and this is answering a --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Sometimes I can't remember my own name, though, that's the trouble.

SADY SULLIVAN: [laughter] Well, this is great. Um, yeah, you're answering a lot of questions that I've had about, about how these things were built.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Because I've seen maps and things, but it's hard to tell, uh -- you know, it's still hard to tell how stuff got moved around and how --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Right.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- how you, how you handled all this stuff that was so huge.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Right. So, around the ways on, on either side were a structure that held, uh, uh, what's it called? Um, oh, let me think now. What'd they call them. Well, anyway, it was a structure that we walked on to put the sides of the ships together.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And they were up off the ground like a giant, uh, oh, walkways and things like that built of steel structure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You know? And that was on both sides of the ship, and then the cranes would be built on the structure around that so the cranes could go over the top of the ship, and they were across the ship. So, they, they would travel all the way down the length of the ship, uh, being held up on both sides by cross members. And that, that would, uh, hold all the lifting material that 25:00put the parts of the ship, put the parts of the ship in place from the dock to the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Looked like a huge, uh, box.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And so was there someone's job to build just that structure that other people would be standing on, or was that --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yeah. We had to stand on, we had to stand on the, on the staging outside the ship in order to put the parts together.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And if you think it wasn't noisy, uh, when they -- they riveted much of the ship together with long rivets probably three inches thick. Uh, you know what a rivet is?

SADY SULLIVAN: I do, but please describe it so that we have it --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, it --

SADY SULLIVAN: -- on the recording.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It's, it's a, it's a piece of steel about three or four inches long with a, with -- it's made with a cap on it like a, like, um, oh, let's see. How do I explain it? Well, it had a cap on it so when they put the, 26:00the rivet in, they would drill holes in the side of the ship to, to hold the, uh, rivets, and they would push the rivets into those holes long enough to fit through the hole up on the other side, and then the rivet on the inside, uh, would, uh, form the shape of a, a round head on the inside to hold it together. But in order to do that, they had to heat the rivets till they were almost white hot in a, a special, uh, setup they had. And the fellow who was doing that, he would grab the, the rivets with a pair of tongs and red hot, he would throw it to the people, uh, who would put the rivets, putting the rivets in the, in the holes, and they would catch the rivet in a, in a bucket. And then the, the riveter would grab the rivet and push it into the hole, and then the, the riveter himself, with a big ninety pound, uh, pneumatic gun would drive the 27:00rivets into the hole. And then there was another guy on the inside with another big, giant, uh, uh, riveter, and he would smash the end of the rivet down to, to form a shape on the inside so the riveting could, couldn't pull out of the hole.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that was, uh, if you think that wasn't noisy, you -- [laughter] that's why most of the shipyard workers are deaf.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: [laughter] So --

SADY SULLIVAN: That sounds really dangerous.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm, it was dangerous because, you know, if the guy missed and it dropped down below, they would say, "Well, I wiped the blood off and sent it back up."

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh my gosh!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: And it's hot, too, so didn't --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, it was red hot, sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Were people getting burned all the time?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, they, they were very careful and they were, they were very good at what they did. They could, uh, they had it so -- had it down so accurately, they could throw a rivet high enough so that the guy that was going to put it in the hole could catch it, and, uh, and go from there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: In other words, the plates of the ship had to be, uh, riveted together because they put one over the other, you know, on the edge-like.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So anyway -- it'll be why some shipyard workers is what it looks like.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But they still do that today on many ships.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh! They still use rivets?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah. The, the, um, they use it on tram steamers and, and cargo ships and things like that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And a lot of it's welded and a lot of it's riveted together.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Uh, so what would be, why, why were some parts of the ship welded and some riveted?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, for strength.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: In other words, the weld -- the riveted parts were doubled together. The lower section of one with a section of the other, they were lapped over like an envelope. You know what I mean?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You know how an envelope has a fold along the top?

SADY SULLIVAN: Yup.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, the two parts, instead of being glued together, they would be riveted together.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, whereas the welds were, were just one layer?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah, the weld, weld, they were welded, they were welded some places one on top of the other, or side by side. They would, uh, uh, weld it that way.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Now, the carriers, aircraft carriers were a little different as far as the decking goes because they did away with the wood decks that they used to have on the carriers because the bombs would go right through them.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And they, they used, uh, armor plates for the, the decks on the aircraft carriers that were three inches thick and, um, maybe thirty, forty feet long. And the welders would weld them together. They would put them side by side with a, with a v-shaped, uh, edge so then they would fill the, the opening with weld, the welding, welding, welding rods and hot, hot weld.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um, and so do you -- we talked about the shipbuilding ways. Did you -- was there, um, a building that you worked in too, 30:00one of the shops?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, no, there was no building. Uh, the, everything was open.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You were outside all the time, except the shops were, you know, big buildings.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So -- and also, they, a lot of the, the shaped parts of the, of the ship like around, around the sides and up at the bow, where the, where the steel plates had to be bent?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: The, the people who -- in the loft -- they would build sections out of wood the shape of, of, you know, like, uh, let's see, maybe half-inch by six inch lumber or less, the shape of the plate that was going to go on the ship. In other words, you know what a dish plate looks like?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, if you flattened that out, it would have a certain shape.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, in order to get around the corners and go up, roll up the side of the ship, those plates had to be rolled up in place. So, they had to 31:00make a pattern that matched, uh, the roll of the, of those plates so it would fit the ship, you know, make the shape of the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, they would do that in, in -- make these diagrams and pieces out of wood framing, ship it down to the shop, and then they would make, uh, they would cut out a plate the right size. And then they had machinery there that would press the plates into shape, would roll the plate up into shape like at the, at the bow and on the, on the sides of the ship where it was curved.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: In other words, if you took a piece of paper flat, and then rolled it, rolled it like a, a, um, you know, just rolled it, made a roll out of it, that's what you could do with the steel plates.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, they would, uh, make the flat plate and, uh, have a rolled edge, rolled piece so it would, uh, take the shape of the ship. So, in other words, if you took a piece of paper and just folded up one edge of it curved, that would be how the ships would come out, how the plates would come out.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. And so, did they have to heat the steel in order to do that?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No. They could do that with the huge, uh, um, huge machinery they had, hydraulic pumps and material to bend those plates.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, they could build a -- they could bend a, a one inch plate, thirty feet long, with a huge, huge piece of machinery that pressed it down right in place.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. Um, what -- did you have a, were you part of a shop number or a local union?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No. We, there weren't unions at that time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, there were probably, but we didn't, we weren't, weren't a part with any union, no.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I guess in later years that they, you know, there were shipbuilding unions and stuff. But during the War, uh, we weren't part of a union --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- that I remember anyway.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: There could have been, but I, who knows? [laughter] It was a long time ago.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. Um, who was your supervisor, um, when you were quarterman?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, a guy by the name of Kiel, I think his name was. I don't -- oh no, Kerwin.

SADY SULLIVAN: Kerwin?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Kerwin, yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, and so what would his position be?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, he would, he would, uh, come around and watch what we, what we did, you know, and then sort of push the job along. If it, it was getting slow, he would take care of the problems of, uh, probably of, uh, of bringing stuff aboard. But, uh, usually just to make, uh, to supervise what everything was going right.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: And so, was he, um, was he a civilian person or was he a Navy person?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, he was -- it was strictly all civilians. There were no, we had no Navy personnel working on the ships at all.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And, and who, who were the people you were working with? Um, tell me a little bit about them. Where were they from, where did they live?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, they all -- most of them lived in Brooklyn.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Because, you know, it was close to the job and so forth. And a lot of folks came from the Bronx and Manhattan, like myself --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- and wherever. So, they were all good mechanics, they were all good people and hard workers. So, you didn't have to tell them what to do next. They knew, you know, from experience.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, they did a fine job.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, and what about, was the -- what was the racial or ethnicity mix of people that you worked with?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, racially?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, there were Blacks and Whites, you know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah. Uh, there was no problem there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, they all worked together very nicely.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Was that, was that usually how it was at that time?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I suppose so. I never, never -- I never gave it a thought, so --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- it didn't matter what color you were, as long as you did the work.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, what about places that, like backgrounds? Was there certain jobs that people of certain backgrounds, um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No. They were just laborers mostly.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, uh, so forth like that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And there was -- the, the, there were engineers also that worked in the, um, in the buildings, who designed the, the material to come out to the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, uh, so forth like that. And there were also electricians and, uh, welders and plumbers and machinists. Uh, you know, some of the propeller shafts were 300 feet long on those carriers.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that, that -- we used to put what they call the, uh, the foundations and the parts that held the shafts in place, and they had to be accurate within a thousandth of an inch to run that distance.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that's -- in other words, a propeller shaft had to be a perfectly aligned piece of steel 200 or 300 feet long, because that was half the 36:00ship. Because a propeller shaft's made in the engine rooms, powered by steam, and would be, and would go from the middle of the ship all the way to, to the stern, where they'd come out the back where they, where they hooked up or installed the propellers and so forth. And there were four of those. They don't do that anymore. Now they use a, uh, a vertical type, uh, material.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, so why did they, why did they do that switch?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It was much easier and more efficient.

SADY SULLIVAN: To do it vertical?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah, to be vertically -- yes, because they could turn them, turn that shaft with the propeller, like an outboard motor inside the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay. Oh, I see what you mean.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You know what I mean? Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: So before, there were four because they had to go four directions?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah. Well, they had -- they would turn them maybe 180 degrees so they could turn the ship. They would turn the, the whole ship, turn the propeller just like an outboard motor. You turn the motor and you go around, 37:00you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that was -- they were going that way.

SADY SULLIVAN: I see. Um, and was there, was there women working in the Yard when you were there?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm, not that I remember. They, they may have been in the offices and things like that, but I don't think they were on the ships.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh, what about welding?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, the welders? Uh, they were, they were there all the time. They had their heads stuck in the mask eight hours, ten hours a day.

[laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, they never saw anything. They were -- there's probably very few of them alive if at all, on account of the smoke they breathed all day long.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Because they had four or five welders working in a compartment. You couldn't see one, one wall from another. The walls are called bulkheads, in other words.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And in that room, you couldn't, you couldn't see anything. They did have blowers and stuff, but it never was, never was sufficient.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, you mean, you couldn't see anything because of the smoke?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah, so -- [laughter].

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, you know, it was -- not all the time. But, uh, when it was a whole group of welders, it was pretty smoky in there and everybody was breathing the same thing. They, they had masks on, but the, the masks didn't help too much.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right, right. Um, so was there, was there accidents and stuff that would happen?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, yeah, but they, they were very safety conscious.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I was also the safety supervisor at, at certain times --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- watching, you know, what was going on and so forth. So, they were very careful because they knew they could get hurt any second.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, they were very careful workers --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- as far as fire and stuff like that goes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah, what about fire? I, I have heard that there was, um, that there was like a fire marshal or something who would walk around.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yeah. But that, he -- of course. But the only, the only big fire they had, I think, was one of the ships, they were building the aircraft carriers and, well, I don't -- well, everybody knew about this anyway. 39:00They were -- the aircraft carrier has a deck that they, they move material about and keep the planes on. Um, and then above that is a flight deck --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- and another deck that holds, uh, holds the stables for the offices and, and crew up there, up high. But to supply the lower parts of the ship with materials and, and, uh, ammunition and stuff like that, they would have elevators going up and down from the main deck down to the bottom of the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That was probably thirty feet or so.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And a lot, a lot of the oil and the crew was stored on the hangar deck of the ship, and you had to be very careful with that. So, I think one day, one of the forklift trucks we used to move them hit one of these, hit one of these, uh, fifty gallon drums, and it poured down the shaft where the welders were working. It caused a huge fire.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Because some, some of the people in the area couldn't get out, and they were, uh, they were, they were lost.

SADY SULLIVAN: Is that the, is that -- was that on the Constellation?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I think so, yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. Um, oh, I never, I never knew why that, that fire happened.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: I had heard that there was a fire.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, that's what it was. I had just left the ship, uh, because I, I was working nights at the time, and I had gotten home and I hear this thing on the radio, and oh boy. What happened now?

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, that's sad.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm. It is sad. That was the most major accident we had.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. And so, what happened after that? Did they stop working on the Constellation?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, no. We just, uh, when the -- were able to put the fire out, see, and they had aluminum, aluminum ladders to go from one deck to another there, and some of the, it was -- the scene was so hot, the, uh, the ladders melted and the people couldn't get up, uh, where they were down, those who were working down in, in the bowels of the ship couldn't get out.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh. Uh, was there any kind of, like a rescue team or something?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh sure. They, they, they put the fire out as soon as they could. But in the meantime, uh, the oil that was burning, you know, was so intense, it was difficult.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right, right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And it was so hot, you couldn't, uh, no one could even walk in the place or anything like that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. Was there -- what, what happened in the Yard the next day? Did you go back to work the next day?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yeah, sure. You just, you had to do work where you could, that's all. It was in, in one part of the ship in particular where they were -- it was like in a, I think it was a forward part of the ship where the, the big damage was.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, anything that was damaged, we just took and ripped it out with, you know, they had what they called burners. People would handle the torches that cut the steel.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, they would cut the steel out, and we, we replaced it.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And was there any, was there any acknowledgment or ceremony or anything about what had happened?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, I don't know. I guess, uh, I forgot all, what, what 42:00happened after that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But to, to think of more pleasant things, when they were building the carriers, it was fun to watch how they tested the catapults. You know what they are?

SADY SULLIVAN: No, I don't.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, on the flight deck, there's a hook that the planes hook into, and it's in the track and it goes down the deck and, and it launches the planes, uh, the aircraft that are going to fly off the, off the flight decks.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It's a long stretch for the, uh, where, uh, this hook is, runs down this track. You know, it's, it's the steam-driven, I think it was at the time, and it was -- the hook would hook, hook up into the plane and drag it down the deck, and at that time, they were, they were -- their motors were running at top speed. That's how they got the lift to get off the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: See, they were, they were pulled off the ship actually with the motors running. As, as the, um, as they reached their flight speed, the hook would drop, and the plane would take off.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh! I see! And so, what was that -- was that made out of metal or something, that thing?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, everything was steel, sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah, yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And the carriers have probably -- I forget now. They had several tracks for them to go off of.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And then you, you -- in order to test those catapults when the ship was in the water, they would put a huge, weighted block with wheels on it, and then they would hook up this, this huge block, probably, uh, forty feet or so long and the same weight as the plane would be, or heavier, and they would fire that off the deck into the water, into the Hudson, into the, uh, the river there, the East River.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that was fun to watch. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah! What did it look like?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It was this thing, this big box would fly down the deck, uh, and then, um, be dropped into the water, you know, shot off into the water. It would float, though. It was the same weight as the plane, but it would land in the water maybe forty feet away from the, the flight deck, and, and it would 44:00float, and the tugboats would pick it up and then bring it back.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ah! That's funny. Um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It is funny. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Did it, did it do like a big splash. Could you -- do you think it's something that people could see --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- from Manhattan?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh sure!

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, that was the way they tested it. They had to have some way of testing the, the mechanism to see if it would work or not and see if it would go fast enough, because they had to reach almost flight speed by the time they hit the end of the deck.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that was fun.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. Um, are there other things like that that were, that were, like, neat physical experience, sights, smells, sounds that, that you remember about the Yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yes. Well, when we were building the ship, they need, they needed huge gas tanks. Actually, the gas tanks on the carriers and battleships -- not the battleship, but the, uh, carriers -- could hold a tractor trailer in there. That's how big the gas tanks were.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, what about, what about smells in the Yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It always stunk.

[laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: All you smelled was smoke, I mean, for twelve hours a day, twenty-four/seven. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh wow, what kind of smoke? Like oil?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, no, no. No, it's from, from welding and from oil and, and coal, because they used to heat the rivets with the, with the coal-fired, uh, thing, with a, a furnace on the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh! And, and you talked about the sounds. Was there other, was there other sounds in the Yard? Was there --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, you couldn't hear yourself think most of the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah, yeah. Was there --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But you --

SADY SULLIVAN: -- an announcement system? How did they -- how did word spread around?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, by foot.

[laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, you couldn't hear anything really. They did have radio and, uh, and they would make announcements when the ship was quiet, but, uh, when it was, when they start to rivet and things like that, you would never hear anything.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, another experience is -- there's all kinds of experiences. Every day it was different. That's why I liked the job.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm, there as always something different going on, even no matter, you did a lot of the same things all the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: What kind of things would come up to make a day different?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, it was, was -- it's hard to say, but when they were installing things, it would, something would happen, it would be different, they'd have to do it a different way or something like that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, so a lot of people I know got laid off after the War was over, but you stayed on?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh sure. They closed, uh, 85,000 people were down to almost nothing. So, I had, I had about 180-day sick leave, so when they, they closed down, they, I took my sick leave.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: 180 days, so, to use that up.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, I was unemployed at the time. So, one day I was in the library, um, what for I don't remember what, looking up a book or a magazine or 47:00something. And a, a couple of ladies were talking. They said they were looking for teachers in the, in the, the high schools, you know, for different things. So, uh, they said, "Why don't you go and go teach?" I said, "Well, I don't have a bachelor's degree and, uh, you know --" So she says, "That doesn't matter. You could go and teach industrial arts, that's like industrial technology, and then you can get your bachelor's while you're working."

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: "You've got five years to get it." So that's what I did. So, then I, after the Navy Yard, I taught for nineteen years in high school.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So then, uh, the age got too, difference got too, got too much, so I didn't want to be -- I was getting old, and I didn't match up with the children too easily.

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh-huh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You know? [laughter] So I said, well, when I reached sixty-two, I said, "This is the time to go." Social Security was there, so it was fine.

SADY SULLIVAN: So, you retired?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, I retired then, yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, so how long did you work at the Navy Yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Twenty-five years and nineteen in teaching, so I got two 48:00pensions from that plus my Social Security.

SADY SULLIVAN: That's great.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It wasn't much money. It was only 10,000 dollars a year, so -- [laughter].

SADY SULLIVAN: From the Navy Yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I think so, yeah, around ten, ten or twelve, I forget now.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But, you know, teaching wasn't, profession wasn't very high at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Salaries.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, so, so you started at the Navy Yard in the '40s? Is that right?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: And so that would have been in, like, '65 or something that you left?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I think. It was twenty-five years later. I never, I never did calculate it.

SADY SULLIVAN: So '60-something?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes, yeah. So, then I put nineteen years in teaching after that, so I worked about forty-five years I guess.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. Um, so after World War II, you stayed at the Yard.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: And, and how -- I know that a lot of people were laid off then.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yeah. They, they -- of the 85,000, I think there were maybe 2,500 left in the place.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. And so, you were --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That was, that --

SADY SULLIVAN: -- part of that small group?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That's right. There was a huge -- that, that yard was 250 acres, I think.

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh-huh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It was very large. And when I worked there, when I was on the night shift, I had, I had charge of the whole yard, any construction going on, so I had to travel the whole place two or three times a night to check on the work that was being done on, in different places.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that was a, that was a tough night.

SADY SULLIVAN: How did you get around the yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Walk.

SADY SULLIVAN: Really?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, that's --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Or bike, or bicycle.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh! That's --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Most of the time, walk.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And would you be by yourself, or did you go with a group?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No. By myself.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: We'd go -- wherever the work was going done, I would see people over there and see supervisors over there, and they would give me the information to pass off to the day shift.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, I see.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: And so that, so did you always work nights?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, no. The -- off and on. It was changed all the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Wherever there was a need, I maybe tried it for a while, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. So how, um, how -- why do you think that you were able to stay on when a lot of people were laid off at, after the War?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, I, well, I, I just stayed as long as I could, uh, and I -- I think it was a good time to get out when I was about, let's see, I forget how old I was, but anyway, twenty-five years after that, uh, from '40, that would be something -- I'd have to calculate that up. But anyway, that would be, uh -- I decided I had enough of it, you know? And I, I just tried to do something different.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. So, when you left, was that when the Yard was decommissioned?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: OK. Um, do you remember, what was it like to work in the Yard after all of the -- when it was just 2,500 people rather than the 85,000?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, you know, it was a lot less work and lots, a lot less building going on. But it was still noisy when, when you're working out, out in 51:00the field.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, what about security? How was the security at the Yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, they had, they had the security all over the place.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You know, people who would walk around, watch this, and so forth, and, uh, I didn't have much to do with them. They were, they were in a class by themselves. They'd just walk around and take, take a look here and there and so forth.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Any buildings, you had to be, you know, make sure you had the, your badge and security so you can get in the building and so forth. I -- it was very good. They didn't have any problems that way that I know of.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Did that change after World War II? Was it, was it different after the War?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I have no idea. I don't remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. And so, were you living in the Bronx this whole time?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: All the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. How did you, how did you get to work?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: The subway.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It was a nickel a ride.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Five cents. [laughter] And we drove a lot of the time, we 52:00drove down. It was only maybe twelve miles, maybe, to get, to get twelve, fourteen miles.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: And, um, what about lunch? What'd you do for lunch or if you were on the overnight?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, no, there were, there were canteens there, and, uh, you could bring your own lunch.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, and the whistle would blow at twelve o'clock, and then quarter to one it would blow again, you'd go back to work.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, did the whistle blow at other times too?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Only when, when there was an emergency or something like that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ah. So, there was like a lunchtime whistle and then --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah, mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- if you heard it at other times --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Right. You'd know when to go back to work because the noise started.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, right. [laughter] Um, did you ever leave the Yard to go to lunch?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, because you -- uh, you could walk outside the Yard at lunchtime. It was up a hill more or less.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, you know, you were tired enough the way it was, so you, you sat down and rested, and then went back to work.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right, right. Um, what about after work? Was there a place that, that everybody from the Yard would go out?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, not that I know -- of course the local gin mills were there, but I never bothered with the drinking. I was just happy to get home.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So as soon as I got out, I took off for home, either by car or, or -- uh -- subway.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, so Sands Street is the place that I've heard of that had a lot of, um, bars and stuff like that. Did you ever -- what do you know about Sands Street?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, nothing, I don't think.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, so what was the, what was the climate like in terms of people? Did everybody, you know, were people friendly? Were --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yeah. Nobody -- there were, there were no fights. There was nothing to fight about, not in those times.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: There were, there were no women involved, so you weren't arguing over some broad, you know? [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Maybe it happened outside, but I don't, I don't remember that. I was happily married.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I was married for fifty-six years.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, it was a great time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And I had a great wife.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, what did -- well, did she work?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, she never had to work.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: She brought up the four children, the way it was supposed to be --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- and took care of their school business.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, um, she had a big argument with a teacher in school once because she -- one, one of my sons was having a problem. So, the teacher said, "Well, well, I have him sitting in the back of the room, and he doesn't bother me and I don't bother him." And boy, that, that, that ticks her off, so she took care of that with the principal.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, she was, you know, very concerned about the children.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. And, and did your kids grow up in the Bronx also?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yeah. Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And those, and, uh, well, how do we, how does it work now? I, well, then I moved to Long Island.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So we had all the, all, the whole family moved to Long 55:00Island. In one week, we bought a house and moved out.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow. When did that happen?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, I forget. [laughter] A long time ago.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, then I had to drive fifty miles a day to work each way.

SADY SULLIVAN: To the Navy Yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yup.

SADY SULLIVAN: Wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That's when I got kind of disgusted with everything at the time, so I figured it's time for me to quit.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yup. Um, what was the neighborhood around the Navy Yard, Navy Yard like?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, it was just a regular, regular city.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You know, a lot of noise and a lot of people. You know, it was always crowded. Brooklyn was always crowded, just like everyplace else.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And there's lots of buses and lots of transportation. That was good.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, people were able to get around, so it was all right.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Uh, what was -- how did, how did Brooklyn compare to the Bronx?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, they were all about the same.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Um, you know, same people. Everybody was pretty nice.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And they all got along well.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So -- it's a usual city-type, like anywhere else, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It's nothing spectacular.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, and Brooklyn had lots of places to see along the water and so forth like that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And the Bronx had, uh, lots of, uh, places to go further upstate.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, there was lots, lots of things to do upstate New York.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, and you're in North Carolina now.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: When did you move there?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, probably in either '99 or 2000, I think.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm, and what brought you down there?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: What's it like down here?

SADY SULLIVAN: What, what brought you down there? Why did you move there?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, well, when we were working, um, or teaching school, when I was teaching school, one of the teachers that were there used to work in a trailer place, um, after work.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Because we got home at three o'clock, so he had time to work 57:00two jobs.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, he says, "Why don't you go camping?" I said, "What do you mean, go camping?" Oh, the first -- I said, "I, who, who wants to go camping?" He said, "Well, you've got to go see the world," you know, he talked me into it.

[laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So anyway, I said, the farthest I went was Atlantic City to, to, you know, to see the amusements down there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, um, he said, "No, no, I'll show you how to do it." So, he, he talked me into buying a, a Penguin trailer, that's a little, a trailer.

SADY SULLIVAN: What's a Penguin trailer?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Pardon?

SADY SULLIVAN: What does, what does that look like?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It's like a round trailer that you, you pull behind the car.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh yeah!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You've seen a lot. They're small.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yup.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So sure enough, I bought the Penguin trailer and then, um, uh, we used that for a while. But then I, we, we saw a lot of trailers turned over when, you know, from either wind or, uh, careless driving or stuff like that, so we decided we'd do something else. So, I bought a, a, uh, a used telephone truck --

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh-huh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- with the boxes on the side, you know, a used one --

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- because I used to be into automobiles, I used to do all kinds of things with cars.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And so, uh, I bought the, the box that went on top of that, and we used that for a while.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, neat.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah. So, we had traveled around in that. Then I decided I was going to build myself a motor home because they were too expensive. So, I bought an Entenmanns truck.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: An Entenmanns bread truck?

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Made out of aluminum, so I cut, I cut windows in the side of that and made it look just like a motor home. So, we traveled with that for a long while.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, that sounds really cool.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah. And then I went to the fifth wheel. The fifth wheel was about the nicest thing to use because you could drop the -- especially the new ones today, you could drop them very quickly and take off in your truck, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, I see, like it attaches to the truck?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah, it was -- and, and you didn't have to worry about where the trailer was going because any, any turn you made with the car, uh, it, it would follow. It wouldn't, you didn't -- easily. Just like the, you know, just like a regular tractor trailer.

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh-huh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that was nice.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: So that's how you, that's how you, um, discovered North Carolina?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, that, oh, that, how I got, you know, how did I get to -- yeah. So, one day -- I was always fixing cars and rebuilding them and stuff like that because I had nothing else to do, because I never owned a new car in my life.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: In my whole entire life. So, I used to fix them up. And one day, I was in, in, down there talking to one of the workers, and he said, "Oh, why don't you go down to New Bern? It's a real nice place." I said, "What's New Bern? Where? What the heck is it?" "Well, it's really nice. The people are nice, the homes are cheap, and it's weather nice all the time."

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, I decided, well, we'll, we'll go down and take a look. I was living in the Bronx at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, Long Island at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, we decided, we went down there and we found a nice place here, in, in, uh, in Trent Woods. So, I decided we'd take that, so I bought the place.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that's how I got to New, to New Bern in, uh, in Carolina.

SADY SULLIVAN: And so that's -- did you vacation there with your family?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes, yeah, family came down. The kids were, were here. I 60:00bought a, a nice home and stuff like that, yeah. And then, uh, some of them were here with me, and then the others were still up there in the Bronx, you know, had gotten married at the time, you know, and stuff like that. So -- that's the way it was.

SADY SULLIVAN: And now do you live in North Carolina?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, I -- no, let me, let me straighten that out. I, I mixed up the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: The reason I'm, I came down here, my wife had passed away at the time and the kids were all either married or getting married and stuff like that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh-huh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, every time I left the house, I would run back to the house because I had, you know, had to take care of her while she was sick --

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- uh, and so on. So, I got disgusted with that, so I, that's when I met the guy in the junkyard while I was fixing cars and, uh, he said, "Go down there." So, I came down here by myself, so when I got here, I couldn't find the place, so -- find Trent Woods. So the, I called the real estate agent, said, "Look, I'm over here at a certain place, at a hotel. How do I find my house?" She said, "Well, I'll come and get you."

[laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So she came and got me and brought me over to the house, and the house was absolutely empty, not a glass, not a cup or anything in it, or even to take a glass of water. So, I had to go out that night and, uh, drive around and find some, some food to eat and buy some stuff in, in the local stores.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that's when, that's how I got to, uh, New Bern.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh. And have you, do you live there year-round now?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I'm down here year-round, yes, yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And, uh, actually some of the things that happen to me, I, uh, I'm down here because of, of, of the, um, of some medical things I have.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: -- is that from the shipyard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No. I had, uh, ended up with some prostate cancer and, uh, and hernias and things, the usual things that happen to men, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Yup.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And so forth like that. And, uh, so the doctors down here were pretty good, and, uh, not pretty good, but good, so they kept me alive, so it was all right.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yup. Um, and when did your wife pass away?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, before I moved down here, she passed away. Probably in '99 or 2000, I think.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And she, she passed away because of faulty medical work.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh no.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yes.

SADY SULLIVAN: What happened?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, she had some problems with her, uh, uh -- can I mention this? A, a dropped uterus or something.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah, yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah. Well, anyway, the, the doctor who was supposed to operate, he was there for the first ten minutes of the operation, then he took off and left the, left the rest of it to his three cronies that were there --

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- to work on her. But at the time, I didn't realize what had happened.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And so, the operation continued to ooze in her stomach, and it wouldn't heal up. So, they said, well, we'll, we'll put a mesh in there. So, another operation, so she went back again, put the mesh in, and then it no good either because she, she wasn't compatible to the, compatible to the, um, the mesh, so she had another operation. And then that, that, that was the beginning 63:00of the end, right then. So, it didn't work, and so she had a lot, a lot of pain and stuff like that before she passed away.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, it was just, just faulty medical work.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. I'm sorry --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And had I know, had I been smarter or known more about the deal, I could have sued that son of a gun. So anyway --

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. Hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: However, so I'm down here by myself. Luckily, I have some nice friends.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I joined a couple of the associations here. That are really nice. Joined the fishing club.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, great! Um, and you have twenty-three grandkids.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That's right.

SADY SULLIVAN: That's awesome.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I, I have a trophy for my fishing, uh, once too, because the, the, the -- the folks who were belonging go on a fishing trip every once in a while, for, you know, a day trip. So, I got, I got a, uh -- what do you call 64:00those things? A, a, another token, um, a plaque with my, with my name on it with a big fish on it.

[laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And it says, "for catching the most and the heaviest fish of the day, uh, Clayton Colefield." The fish weighed two pounds, three ounces. So -- [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: That's great.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That's it. [laughter] It was a little, a little tiny -- beautiful fish on the plaque bigger than what I caught, so I --

[laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh. Um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Story of my life.

SADY SULLIVAN: So, do you think, um, did you ever connect, um, with your father, like having worked on ships and then you were building ships? Was that --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, he had, he had passed away at the time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, my mother was alive for quite a while, but that was, that was it, too.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm. Um, so was that, I mean, was it something that -- were you drawn to ships because of that, do you think?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: No, but I, I, I wanted to fly all my life, and I couldn't fly because of my eye, the one eye I can't see, you know, your depth perception and so forth like that. And, uh, and that, that was supposed to be, uh, they wouldn't take ya to, to learn to fly.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, oh, so that was something that you had always?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Always in my life, yeah. You know, you had that lazy eye when you were seven years old, if they didn't fix it by that time, it couldn't be fixed.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right, right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But for some reason or other, all my life I had no -- even with the single eye, I had no trouble with depth perception or distance or close-up.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And why, why I did that even with the one eye, I'll never know.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But, uh, then I had, got the macular degeneration down here, and they fixed that so I could see and read the small print now without the glasses.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But the problem is with the operation, it took away my depth perception and my distance.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So right now, I have trouble going down steps.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: They all look, they all look the same height to me.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, wow.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, I have to be very careful going down steps.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that's, that, that's it. You've got my whole history.

SADY SULLIVAN: [laughter] Your, your memory of the Yard is wonderful, and it's so helpful for this archive. I'm really glad that, that you sent that email and that we were able to have this interview.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, is there --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, I, I was particularly interested in the Missouri because, um, they said they had an organization with, uh, uh, for the, uh, preservation of the ship, so I thought they'd like to know, find somebody who worked on it, you know, and so forth.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Are they, are they still connected with you?

SADY SULLIVAN: They are. Um, there's an archive at, um, at the Navy Yard that's for all of the work that was done in the Navy Yard.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: And then the Missouri, as you saw because you visited, they have their own organization that's just about, um, you know, the, preserving the Missouri.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That's what, that, that's the one I was interested to let them know about it.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. And so, the -- now, the Missouri and the Brooklyn Navy Yard are, um, I don't think it's a formal collaboration, but they're, they're in touch with each other because they know that they're, they're preserving the same history. You know?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, and so --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, if you ever, if you ever hear from them out there, I can, you know, you can give them the information and so forth.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yes. Well, they're excited about this project because what, what the Navy Yard and the Brooklyn Historical Society are doing, we're, um, interviewing people who worked at the Navy Yard --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- during World War II, um, so on, on different ships but sometimes the Missouri, um, and then --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I, I don't think there's many of us left.

SADY SULLIVAN: It's, uh, you are hard to find, and also everybody moves, so, so there's -- I've talked to someone in Florida and someone, you know, so it's, it is, it's hard to find everybody.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, but this is going to be part of a, a History Center exhibition at the Brooklyn Navy Yard. There's -- one of the buildings, um, I 68:00think it's Building 92.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: I don't know if that number --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah, that, that, that number sounds familiar.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That's a big building, yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. So that building is now being, uh, renovated to be a museum that's going to be --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh!

SADY SULLIVAN: -- open to the public, that's going to have a history of the Yard and then a history of some of the, the big ships, and it's going to include this archive of interviews, such as the one that, um, that we just did. So, so your story is going to be part of this History Center at the Brooklyn Navy Yard.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, wonderful. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. Um, yeah, it's really good. Um, and I would love to send you some information about it.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Can you, um, can you give me your address?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well [address redacted for privacy]

SADY SULLIVAN: Great. Well, I will send you the information. We're -- it's probably about a year away from opening.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, that's okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Hopefully I'm still here to see it. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: I know! You'll have to come up.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You'll have to give me a free ride up! [laughter] No.

SADY SULLIVAN: We can, we can see about that. Um, I just have a couple more questions about the Navy Yard. They're sort of, sort of quick --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- but I wondered, um, is there, is there a most vivid memory that you have of the Yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, not really, no. You mean, something I wrote down, you mean?

SADY SULLIVAN: Or something that, you know, when you think of the Yard, this is what you picture?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Hmm. No, I don't think so. Just this, what, just what's in my memory.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, faulty as it is. But that's about it.

SADY SULLIVAN: Well you, I think you have an amazing memory. You remembered these details about -- um, that I've been really curious about. What was your best experience at the Yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Hmm. Staying alive, I think. [laughter] No, no. Uh, the best experience was, uh -- one of the experiences I had was, uh, there was a, a, a captain during the War by the name of Captain Champlain.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And he, one day we were working on a destroyer, and, uh, I 70:00saw this officer walking along the dock and so forth like that, and, uh, where we were. Uh, so he came aboard, and he said, uh, he saw my supervisor hat so he says, uh, uh -- my name was on it -- he said, "Mr. Colefield, uh, would you mind showing me around a little bit?" I says, "Well, of course. What would you like to know?" So, I never, I didn't know that he wasn't the real ship's captain. But he was a ship's captain, but in another, another area, because he had never been on a destroyer before.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And he was going to be the captain of a ship. So we worked on the ship, and he was around almost every day. We looked at this and spoke about this and that and so forth. So, when the ship was being re-commissioned, uh, and ready to go to sea, he said, "I'd like you to come with me on a, on the sea trials." So, he said, uh, "Leave your safety hat home and come, come with a shirt and tie and show up." I said "Okay." So sure enough, the day it was going out to sea, I showed up with my, uh, nice suit on and so on. So, he said, "Ah, 71:00good morning, Mr. Colefield. Uh, I want you to go down to the ward room." That's where they have the, the officers have their lunch and, uh, stuff like that, where they meet every day on the ship. He says, "Go down there. I'll meet you down there." So okay. So, I went down there. I was just standing on the side, and he says, uh, "Mr. Colefield, you see that empty chair over there?" He says, "That's where I sit. You sit in the one next to it." He says -- I said, "Well, there's somebody in it." He said, "No, I'll chase him out."

[laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, so he sat me next to him, and so we went for the sea trials. That's how they run the ship as fast as it can go and put it into full reverse and see how long it takes to stop.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, it's a, you know, it's an important, uh, seafaring thing so you know how, when you can stop and when you can't stop in time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So that was it, so it was a very interesting day, I enjoyed it very much, and the food was good.

SADY SULLIVAN: Do you remember what you ate?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, what date it was?

SADY SULLIVAN: No, what you, what, what was it that you were eating for the, for the lunch?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Hmm, I don't remember. But it was good, whatever it was.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Because you know, the whole works was there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But there were always good cooks on, for the officers on the ship.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, I realized I forgot to ask, were you there at the launching of the Missouri?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh yeah, sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh! Um, tell me about that.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, what happens is we, we, we stood up on a big platform on the bow of the ship, and then they christened it with the champagne, and then they turn on the hydraulic jacks. And the ship is on, on the waves, and in, uh, in, in cradles, and the cradles are built so that they slide on a, on a, on a lubricant --

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- all the way down from where it is right into the water.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, when the lady -- I forget who that was -- uh, broke the bottle, they turned on the hydraulic jacks and the ship started to move all the way down to the water.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: That was an experience. Big splash. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And then the tugboats took hold of it and they brought it over to the dryer -- to the, uh, hammerhead crane, where they, where we worked on it.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh! Um, and was there -- what was the feeling at that moment?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, it was, uh, exultation, you know, something you did and it sailed. It didn't sink. [laughter] You know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Right! [laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You know, it floated, you know, it was an experience. You wouldn't think all that weight could be held up in the water, but it did.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: And there was one more experience I had, in the middle of the winter, when I think it was the Wisconsin battleship, I think it was, went aground in, in the East River and damaged the bottom, according to the divers. It was, hit something or the tide was too low. So, they put the ship in the dry dock in Bayonne, New Jersey.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So they sent us over to travel from the Bronx to, uh, New Jersey, Bayonne, to work on the bottom of the ship, to remove the, the plating 74:00on the bottom of the ship and replace it and, and replace the damaged structure that was under there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: But however, the crew was aboard the ship, and on, on -- in ordinary weather, it's not bad. But it was ice cold, freezing weather, and on the sides of the ships they have what they call scuppers with, with huge tubes on them for the waste that comes off the ship that goes into a, a trench on both sides of the dry dock. It's like a, a, a flood area where, where all the, all the mess goes down into that and is washed out --

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: -- and pumped out.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, what happened is it was so cold that the, uh, the scuppers and the, the pipes froze and broke off, so everything dropped into the dock.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ugh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, so that was a horrible mess.

SADY SULLIVAN: Ugh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, we had to work down there, so we had to have boots on. [laughter]

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, my goodness.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah. But it was, was, wasn't bad underneath the ship, but out, to get to it, that was a, you know, that was rough.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah, unpleasant. [laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It's a funny story, but you know, that's how it is.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. I didn't know that, that that's how -- so is that -- when, when the ship is moving, what happens to that waste?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Well, that goes to -- everything is now, I guess goes through a macerator and is pumped overboard.

SADY SULLIVAN: Uh-huh.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, uh, but they have holding tanks and stuff like that. They don't -- so they can hold stuff now instead of pumping them into the, into the rivers and so forth.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, I guess that's -- that's all I can remember.

SADY SULLIVAN: Well, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, you're quite welcome. And feel free to call me anytime.

SADY SULLIVAN: Thank you.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: And we'll let you know, um, how the, how, what the exhibition, when it's opening and all of that.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay, and if you're ever down this way, give me a call. I have three bedrooms in the house. No, two. No, three.

SADY SULLIVAN: That's great. Um, good. And I hope that you get to come up here when the History Center opens.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm. Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: All right. Um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, I, I will be in New York on the -- from the 21st to the next Wednesday, from Wednesday to Wednesday. My, uh, granddaughter's getting married on, on, on the 23rd.

SADY SULLIVAN: Of, of --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Of this month, yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Of this month?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, well, would you like to have a tour of the Navy Yard?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, I don't think I'll have the time. I have no way of getting there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, okay.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Because I don't, I can't drive anything, you know, like that.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right. Um, well, um, we do have -- the Navy Yard can, can drive. Um, where will you be?

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I will be, uh, out on Long Island, though, in, in Oakdale, Long Island.

SADY SULLIVAN: Oh, okay.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Or Elmont. Either one of the two. My, my children are all up there.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah. Well, if, if you're interested, um, you have my phone number, and let me know. Because if there's, if there's time -- I know it's a wedding, so you're probably really busy. But if there is time, um, and you'd like to come for a tour, uh, that would be great. We'd be happy to show you 77:00around and, um, show you what's, you know, what the History Center's going to look like and --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- and what's going on in the Yard now. Because you know, there wasn't much going on for a long time after it was decommissioned, but, um --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Mm-hmm.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- now there's new businesses that are getting going. So --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Oh, that's wonderful.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: You know, that's good.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: It's a nice area, and a lot could be done with the Navy Yard, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah!

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Industrially.

SADY SULLIVAN: Exactly, yup.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yup. And it's got, you know, two, I think it's two huge, two docks there with, uh, dry docks, the big ones. I think they can hold two ships. I'm not sure.

SADY SULLIVAN: Right.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: I mean, two carriers, I think. Now, is it one? Or -- I forget if, if there's, if there, if there are two big dry docks or, or not. I know there's one, and I forgot if there's a second one.

SADY SULLIVAN: Mm-hmm.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So --

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah, those are -- there is still, um, ship repair happening in the Yard --

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Yeah.

SADY SULLIVAN: -- which is good.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: Um, well, definitely be in touch if that, if you would like to come on a tour when you're up here for the wedding.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay. I'll, I'll see if I, if, uh -- you know, it all depends on who, who I have to stay with and where they are and stuff like that, you know?

SADY SULLIVAN: Right, right. Oh, I know.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: So, you know, I hate, I hate a suitcase. Living out of a suitcase is a pain in the neck.

SADY SULLIVAN: Yeah.

[laughter]

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay.

SADY SULLIVAN: Okay.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Uh, thanks for your time.

SADY SULLIVAN: Thank you.

CLAYTON COLEFIELD: Okay, bye-bye now.

SADY SULLIVAN: Bye.