Herbert Glantz

SULLIVAN: Um, so if you would count to five.

GLANTZ: One, two, three, four, five.

SULLIVAN: That's great, thank you. And, OK. [pause] And we are rolling. Um, today is April 9, 2010, I'm Sullivan with the Brooklyn Historical Society, and this interview is for the Brooklyn Heights Synagogue oral history project, uh, for the 50th anniversary of the Synagogue. And if you would introduce yourself to the recording.

GLANTZ: My name is Herbert Glantz.

SULLIVAN: [laughter] For the archive, what's your date of birth?

GLANTZ: I was born [date redacted for privacy], 1930 in Brooklyn.

SULLIVAN: Where in Brooklyn?

GLANTZ: I don't know.

SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GLANTZ: I'm not sure. Some hospital or other.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. Um, so tell me a little bit about your parents.

GLANTZ: My parents, my father's name was Edwin, my mother's name was Rose. They were both born here in New York. My maternal grandparents were Jacob and Sophie. Jacob came from Russia to avoid serving in the Czar's army, and worked for the ILG as lacemaker in New York City. My paternal grandparents were Nathan and Ida, I believe they came from Germany and Czechoslovakia, I'm not sure. And my paternal grandfather Nathan founded the family business, which became N. Glantz & Son [N. Glantz & Son Sign and Graphics Supplies, corporate headquarters in Louisville, KY], and in which I served, and which has now been taken over by two 2:00of my children for the fourth generation. Um, my paternal grandmother Ida was a very strong, ferocious woman, and always referred to my mother's parents as the immigrants because they got here about five years after she did.

SULLIVAN: [laughter] And what is the family business?

GLANTZ: Family business is a -- we are wholesale suppliers to companies that manufacture outdoor advertising signs, neon and plastic. Founded by my grandfather who started off as a sign painter, and became a supplier to the other sign painters, and the business was originally founded in downtown Manhattan. My father went into it, and I did, and then through my sons, it's now 3:00located in Louisville, Kentucky.SULLIVAN: Oh.

GLANTZ: And being run by two of my sons.

SULLIVAN: Um, why did it make the move to Louisville?

GLANTZ: As we expanded across the country, Louisville became the central distribution location for us, and ultimately, for a long time, we had company headquarters right here on Court Street, and then for a variety of corporate reasons, personnel reasons, it's now relocated to Louisville, Kentucky.

SULLIVAN: So what neighborhood in Brooklyn did you grow up in?

GLANTZ: I grew up in Flatbush, I spent almost my entire life there. Went off to school, went into the service, and for the last 40-odd years, I've lived here in Brooklyn Heights.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And what -- what made you choose Brooklyn Heights to live?

GLANTZ: Found a place.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Found a place. Decided we liked it, we stayed.

SULLIVAN: Um, can you tell me a little more about your education experience in Brooklyn and beyond?

GLANTZ: I went to Public School 193 in Flatbush, and then attended Brooklyn Technical High School, which was just a few blocks away from here, I ended up going to school in Boston at MIT.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Got out of MIT, went into the service for two years, worked -- got out of the service, worked as a technical consulting field for two years, and then went into the family business.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And you told me you have two children, or about two children, tell me about your family today.

GLANTZ: Well, my wife and I are -- it's the second marriage for the two of us, we have a blended family, two of hers, two of mine, and two of ours, a total of six. One is living here in Manhattan, one -- two are living in Virginia, one is 5:00living in Louisville, one's living in Medford, New Jersey, and one's living in California. It's a very dispersed family.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And what about your religious and cultural upbringing as a kid?

GLANTZ: I was brought up in Flatbush, I attended Hebrew School at the East Midwood Jewish Center with Rabbi Halpern, I was bar mitzvahed there. I have no -- my personal -- I am basically an atheist. I believe strong in Jewish culture, Jewish cultural society, and that's why I maintain an interest in the synagogue and so on, but I certainly -- I am not a religious believer at all. My wife was brought up in a very orthodox Jewish family, her family -- she was actually born 6:00in Austria, in Vienna, her parents escaped the Holocaust and she lost a good part of her family that way. She has also total -- become a total non-believer. But she -- I grew up in a, basically a, um, East Midwood Jewish Center was a conservative synagogue, but it was only the neighborhood synagogue, my parents were not religious at all. My wife's parents were -- her father, totally orthodox, and she became a non-believer as well, so that's the way it happened.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And where did your wife, uh, grow up after leaving Austria?

GLANTZ: She came here with her mother in 1939, grew up in East New York, her father joined them, I think, in the early '40s. She grew up in Brooklyn, went to Thomas Jefferson High School, also never left -- never left -- never left home.

SULLIVAN: Um, and so tell me how you first came to know about Brooklyn Heights Synagogue.

GLANTZ: Well, we live in Brooklyn Heights, and if I recall correctly, one of my neighbors, Robert Ravitz was fairly active in the Synagogue, and he told me they needed help, bluntly. And they were -- I was introduced to Stanley Levinson, who at that time, was the President of the Synagogue. The Synagogue, as I recall, it was sort of in shaky shape, and Stanley was overwhelmed as the President. Their finances were very weak, and I'm not really sure why or how, but they prevailed upon me to become the President after Stanley resigned. And I had the pleasure of doing that for five years.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. So what years was that that you were President? Around?

GLANTZ: Ah, I really have no -- I've had to think about that for a while. The Synagogue is now 50 years old, we've lived in the neighborhood, it must've been around 35 years ago, if I had to guess, 35, I'm just guessing, I really don't recall at all. I would guess, about 30, which would make it about 1975, somewhere's around that, that's my guess.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And what were the -- what were the main concerns for you?

GLANTZ: The main concerns of the Synagogue at that time were membership, they were financial, we had a part time rabbi, David Glazer, um, it was just very little community support, very little community involvement. We were located in the old building, which now houses the orthodox congregation. Basically, there 9:00was no staff, there was administration, Stanley had put a lot of time and effort into it, but just didn't know how to run an organization, he was very financially strapped, and I guess any other problems, whatever problems there were, there were. And my wife, my wife, in conjunction with David Glazer -- David Glazer was our part time rabbi, my wife, in conjunction with David's wife, Pamela, undertook the refurbishing of the Synagogue building of the -- of the main hall. They furnished it, they decorated it, and I undertook, I guess, the reorganization of the administration, try to build up the membership, try to get a board established and working, and try to get the Synagogue on to a more 10:00substantial financial footing, and I think we did, I think we did.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. That refurbishing, did that include getting pews?

GLANTZ: That's exactly what they did.

SULLIVAN: Oh, can you tell me because I've heard through other people.

GLANTZ: Ah, what did they do? If I recall correctly, they found these in Connecticut somewhere. It was my wife and Pamela, and I -- I don't recall the details, but that's what they did, they found the pews and they got them down here, and that was it. And we also spent some money decorating the arc, we've got a big fancy candelabra for services. We refurbished, we tried to put the thing in a little more attractive professional setting, and I think we -- David 11:00Glazer was our part time rabbi, and I think my major contribution, my single major contribution for the whole thing was that I hired Rick Jacobs.

SULLIVAN: Oh.

GLANTZ: When David -- we finally felt that we could afford a full-time rabbi, and I guess Rick -- I forget how or why, but Rick applied for the job, and I interviewed and hired him, and that was probably my single major contribution to the Synagogue, Rick was sensational as I'm sure you know.

SULLIVAN: Yes, I've heard so much about him.

GLANTZ: Yeah.

SULLIVAN: So can you tell me a little bit more about that process, you know, what it was like to...

GLANTZ: In retrospect, I really don't recall. Rick was a single gentleman at that time, extraordinarily attractive. Tall, good looking, every lady in the 12:00Congregation fell for him, and he's now the rabbi at some major synagogue in Westchester, and I don't know how much of this you know, but his wife Suzy Friedman heads something called the Public Art Fund.

SULLIVAN: Oh, I didn't know that.

GLANTZ: Yeah.

SULLIVAN: Oh!

GLANTZ: She is the head of the Public Art Fund, because there's a story there, her mother Doris Friedman was very wealthy -- her mother Doris Friedman was killed, I think in an auto accident at a very young age, and they lived at 25 Central Park West, which I believe the Friedman family had built or something like that, and we're still casually friendly with them, we maintain relationship with Suzy through the Public Art Fund, and she is very active in that -- that's her creation, the Public Art Fund, in memory of her mother. And as a matter of fact, you may or may not know but the -- you know where the Plaza Hotel is, in 13:00that corner?

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: If you come out of the Plaza Hotel and you look up to two o'clock, there's a corner there, which is sort of a square, which is called Doris Friedman Square.

SULLIVAN: Oh.

GLANTZ: In memory of. That's just a little anecdote.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Anyway, Rick stayed on long after I left, but I guess he outgrew the Synagogue and moved up to Westchester, which is where he now is.

SULLIVAN: And so he -- this is from reading things, he was also dancing? He was the rabbi and also a dancer?

GLANTZ: And also a what?

SULLIVAN: A dancer.

GLANTZ: A -- yes, yes. Rick was a dancer, you're right, yes he was, yep. He had -- he used to refer to himself as the power forward who became a dancer, he was a basketball player. And his family, if I recall correctly, owned Ethan Allen Furniture, or some major furniture chain, and he came from California, and I 14:00think his presence truly made the Synagogue turn the corner. Became a very, very attractive, very powerful, big attraction. I guess that's the major contribution I made.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. Was there any hesitation in hiring someone with -- who was also working in the arts?

GLANTZ: I don't recall, but I don't think so, because that was just a side life. And there was never any question about his devoting his time or effort to the Synagogue. It was very significant.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And can you describe the kind of, I've heard it, but I'd like to hear the kind of effect that he had on the programming and...

GLANTZ: I'd say his biggest effect was on the women. [laughter]

SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GLANTZ: I mean, he was like a movie star, he was like a rock star, they loved him. And they all had designs on him for their daughters.

SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GLANTZ: But uh, he had, he really put a lot -- David, who we're still friendly with, was a very, how should I say it, eccentric. And he was only part time. I think, if I recall correctly, he was in the garment manufacturing business, and all we could do was afford him part time, and he was in Baltimore, his father was a chazan and I remember his father used to come up to perform for high holiday services with David. But David, whom I loved dearly, he was very limited in terms of his time span. So Rick came on, it was a full time job, and he was very ambitious, young and energetic, and he really sparked, I would say. And we also had, by then, succeeded in getting the Synagogue onto a more stable financial footing. We'd built up the membership, we had an operating board, and 16:00uh, that's my claim to fame.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. How did you go about building up membership?

GLANTZ: Ah. Ah. You know, I'm not really sure exactly if we had a -- we just sort of accrued. As the synagogue got more established, when Rick came in, we just sort of -- and more Jewish people came into the neighborhood. When we first came here, which was 40 years ago, we were not the first Jews in the neighborhood, but it was very, very WASP-y, as I'm sure you know. It's dramatically changed over the period of time. We -- an old story, we belong to the Heights Casino, you know that is?

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: When we first joined, and we were not the first Jews there, but we were 17:00certainly amongst the first, we invited a couple of friends of ours, a couple of friends of ours, to dinner there one night, the name was Bob Sands. And he got into -- he sat down in the dining room, and he said, 'I wish my father were alive so I could tell him because,' quoting the story now, his father had been a reporter for the Brooklyn [Daily] Eagle. And when politicians held news conferences at the Heights Casino, Jewish reporters were not allowed in, so times have changed, times have changed.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: There's still no Black members over there, but I think that's a question of time, when they move into the neighborhood.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: But certainly, the neighborhood has become more ethnically diverse, you know, more Jews have moved in, so they look for synagogues, and there we were.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And what was the community -- has there been changes in the Synagogue community since you've been a member?

GLANTZ: You know, I'm really not active with the Synagogue now at all, totally inactive. I did my job and left, so I really can't comment. It was certainly -- it was small and limited. I think it's just much, much larger, much more diverse. Geographic, I just don't know. I really cannot say.

SULLIVAN: So what was the community like when you first joined?

GLANTZ: Very small, very insular. I guess that's the best way to describe it. And it's -- from what I gather, the current rabbi is doing a very fine job also, I just -- I know him, I met him, but I just don't know. But I gather, the Synagogue is thriving, which is fine, which is nice.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. Did you know -- did you know Belle and Rubin Huffman?

GLANTZ: Oh, of course, yeah. Of course, well they were the founding members.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: And Rubin, to say the least, it was a little crazy, but a real gentleman, a really fine gentleman. And Belle was also crazy, but very devoted, very dedicated, and they were the founders. So, certainly the highest regard for them, absolutely -- by the time I got there, I think they felt they had done their job, which they had, and it was up to the next generation to carry it on, but they were still very, very active members, and very enthusiastic, absolutely. Oh, I knew them well, of course.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. When -- can -- what do you mean by that they were a little crazy? Having never met them, but I've heard -- is there an anecdote that [laughter]...

GLANTZ: No, I can't give you an anecdote, but they were a little -- they were just eccentric. I mean, very nice, I mean, really nice, enthusiastic people, 20:00nice, a little eccentric, that's all. That's OK, nothing wrong.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. What did -- what did they do, or what did Mr. Huffman do for work outside of the Synagogue?

GLANTZ: I'm sorry?

SULLIVAN: What did Mr. Huffman do for work outside of...

GLANTZ: I -- well, by the time I knew him, he was retired, so I don't know. He was very active, among other things, in the Jewish war veterans. Constantly, I had to join that because of him, he constantly badgered me on that, and somehow, I have him in mind, he might've been a school teacher, but I'm just guessing. It just sort of looked to me like school teachers, all public school -- but I'm just guessing. I -- I, no idea what he actually did for a living, no idea at all. He was obviously a World War II veteran.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. Um, who were some other key people at the Synagogue that...

GLANTZ: Well, it was Robert Ravitz, who I mentioned, was a neighbor of mine in 21:00Garden Place.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: We -- our neighbor next door was Dr. Avram, you may have met him, and Dr. Avram -- there's a Jewish expression, is my mechutan, one of his daughters married one of my sons.

SULLIVAN: Oh!

GLANTZ: So, the expression is mechutan. And uh, uh, he -- I always knew that whenever I needed financial support, I could put the touch on him, he was always good for a check, and he never participated in the actual administration at the Synagogue, but he was very supportive financially, very helpful. Stanley Levinson who was the ex-President who died, unfortunately, shortly thereafter. Uh, let's see, who else? [pause] There weren't many. There weren't many. 22:00Actually, I'm trying to think. Our financial man, what was his name now? Art Radin -- Art Ruden -- Radin, Art Radin, have you spoken to him?

SULLIVAN: No.

GLANTZ: Miriam Katowitz, they live in the Heights also, Miriam Katowitz is married to Art Radin. Art Radin functioned as our right -- Treasurer, he's an accountant. Miriam was very helpful, very active. They live in the Heights, you should speak to them. Katowitz and Radin, they're still here. Um, that's a long time ago. I hadn't thought about this a lot in a lot of years. Um, that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. Did your -- did -- did your son meet the Avram daughter through the Synagogue?

GLANTZ: Through my wife.

SULLIVAN: Oh. [laughter]

GLANTZ: Through my wife.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: And they -- he's one of the boys running the business, and -- and Avram's daughter, Rella, is a Heights dermatologist, she has her office still there.

SULLIVAN: Oh.

GLANTZ: In their home, which is right -- you know there's an orthodox synagogue in there now where they --

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm, mmhmm.

GLANTZ: OK. And they live right next door. I think they're address is 115, just right next to the orthodox. And that's where her office is, they still live here.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Um, that's it.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. Um, what was the relationship between the Synagogue and other religious institutions in the neighborhood?

GLANTZ: I can't comment, I just don't know. I'm not involved in that, I just don't know.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. What about other Jewish organizations?

GLANTZ: Same thing, just don't know.

SULLIVAN: Um, we talked about changes in the neighborhood. Um, is there a moment 24:00that stands out to you where you felt most connected with the Synagogue?

GLANTZ: Probably when my son was bar mitzvahed there. And shortly -- I served, as my recollection, I served as President for about five years, and I think I left the year after my son was bar mitzvahed, that chronology is a little vague, but I think something like that.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And so, you're children, who participated at the Synagogue?

GLANTZ: I'm sorry?

SULLIVAN: Which of your children participated at the Synagogue?

GLANTZ: Oh, no. Davey went to Hebrew school there and was bar mitzvahed. Uh, my grandchildren, Rella's children have been bar mitzvahed there, they still -- they went to Hebrew school, there two -- two, she has two boys, who were both bar mitzvahed there. But um, it's fairly typical. Now, the kids got bar 25:00mitzvahed, but just didn't continue.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm, mmhmm. Um...

GLANTZ: And we don't go to services at all, we're just totally non-religious, so.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And you sort of -- I mean, you kind of talked about it, but why do you not go to services really anymore?

GLANTZ: My wife, I think her reaction to her father's -- almost maniacal orthodoxy has become very anti-religious, and so she does not -- although she was -- when I was -- when I was President, she was very active in helping to refurbish, and to work, and to do things, so there's no impetus from her to attend. We um -- and I, as I said, I'm an atheist, and the only connection I feel is through the Jewish people as a culture. And that does not encourage me 26:00to go to services. Parenthetically, whenever the high holidays come around, we had a summer home up in Nantucket, and we are invariably up there, not here, and we belong to the synagogue up there. There's a very active synagogue up there. And I used to, not religiously, to use the term a different way, go to the high holiday services up there, and I just sort of drifted away from it. So to me, it's the only connection is sort of a community, and when I hear the prayers, it brings me back to my childhood that I can make that connection. But I don't believe she is up there, or anything like that, so it's very hard for me to -- I feel a connection to the Jewish people, but not to the Jewish religion.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. Um, do you celebrate the high holidays at home in -- in the way 27:00-- I mean, with...

GLANTZ: No, not at all. We used to have Passover Seders fairly regularly, and we had a very large, expanded family, so we used to do it with the Avram's, for example, here in the Heights. It sort of faded away, basically, we really just don't even recognize, but that was more a matter of tradition rather than religion, and that sort of faded away also, and just -- it, as our children have become dispersed, as our family has become dispersed, we just don't feel, I guess, the need or the desire -- they've become more -- more of an effort than it's worth, I guess, basically. And it's -- like, Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving, we honor, but it's tradition, it's a family tradition to us, not a religion. So, we 28:00just have no -- that's why -- we didn't even get to the 50th here, we were away, and didn't feel -- I sent them a check, but we didn't go. [laughter] Anyway. So I guess we were renegades.

SULLIVAN: Um, you mentioned that in the beginning, when you became President, that the finances and other things with the Synagogue needed stabilizing. Were there other times that your -- that were challenging in terms of your relationship with the Synagogue?

GLANTZ: No. Once -- once I left office, I left. No, I didn't serve on the board thereafter or anything like that, I just left.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm, mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I -- I don't believe in meddling in someone else's job, let them do it, and no one asked me for advice, so there it was. You know, they didn't need me, so that was that.

SULLIVAN: Um, did you see -- I'm interested in the -- sort of the transition 29:00from when there was the Sisterhood, and there seemed sort of a gender divide maybe in the leadership, did you see that?

GLANTZ: Yes, yes. It wasn't the Sisterhood, Belle -- you mentioned the Sisterhood, Belle was the driving force of the Sisterhood. When I left, as I recall, the administration was taken over by women, and there was a very strong feminist approach to it all, yeah, yes.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I observed it from afar, I was not part of it, but yes, if I recall correctly, the President who succeeded me was a woman, and there became a very strong feminist drive in the institution, yes.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm, mmhmm. Um, what were -- what were some turning points that you noticed in terms of the, um, the social life of the Synagogue?

GLANTZ: The social life?

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I don't know, I can't think. I didn't know there was a social life.

SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GLANTZ: I don't know.

SULLIVAN: What about -- these are some themes that I've pulled out, so it might, you know, may or may not relate. What about like community relations or political world?

GLANTZ: The external politics?

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I don't think there was any, Brooklyn Heights is a very liberal neighborhood, so I don't think -- but I -- I never was aware of any political involvement. I think one of the things that we did, I think it took place while I was there, we started this homeless shelter program, which, uh, we had -- as I recall, we had -- we had to overcome a lot of, uh, opposition to it, as I recall, yeah.

SULLIVAN: Within the Synagogue?

GLANTZ: Yeah. Within the Synagogue, within the neighborhood too, yeah. As I 31:00recall, there was a big fight about that.

SULLIVAN: What was the opposition?

GLANTZ: Well, you know, not in my backyard, the usual stuff. And um, yeah, as I recall, that happened, I think about it, that was one of the things that we pushed through, and there was some opposition within the Synagogue, and there was some opposition in the neighborhood, just the non-members, just the neighborhood. I don't want to exaggerate it, it wasn't a revolution, but it was -- it was -- it took some work to get it done, but I think it's still maintained as far as where they still do it.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Yeah, it was a very worthwhile project, absolutely. And the uh -- also, as I recall, while I was still there, we expanded the whole setup of the Hebrew school. We set up a whole educational panel or something like that. It was -- that was one of the things that we did, we expanded that.

SULLIVAN: Uh, expanded in terms of age, or...

GLANTZ: Uh, let me think. We certainly expanded it in terms of enrollment. I don't recall the details, but I'm quite sure, one of the things we did, the whole compass of the thing we expanded, yes.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Oh, what's her name, Person, Diane Person was -- have you spoken to her?

SULLIVAN: Uh uh.

GLANTZ: She's a major -- another person you should speak to, very important to me to help in the Synagogue. I think her daughter Hara [Rabbi Hara Person, Adjunct Rabbi] is now in the Synagogue as school administrator or something or other. I'm not sure -- she was, I'm not sure if she's, but [Dr.] Diane and Stanley Person, Stanley's dead, Diane, quite -- the last I saw here, she was alive, and I'm pretty sure she's still active, still lives in the neighborhood. 33:00Diane Person was very active at this stage, and very helpful getting things going, and I'm quite sure that one of her children is now in the Synagogue staff, or was recently. Her name is Hara, was her name. She was either Assistant Rabbi, or Assistant Head of the school or something. Anyway, you should definitely look up Diane Person, that's a -- another good source for you, absolutely.

SULLIVAN: I will.

GLANTZ: I'm surprised no one's given you these names.

SULLIVAN: The Avram's yes, but Radin, and Katowitz, and Person, no.

GLANTZ: Person, no? That's interesting. Anyway, they had a very -- Katowitz and Radin still live in the neighborhood right over on Hicks Street, Hicks and Montague. Diane, last I knew, lived over in Cobble Hill on Veranda Place, but the Synagogue would certainly know.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. Good. What about turning points in terms of ritual practice?

GLANTZ: I really -- as you gather, I was very uninvolved with that.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: David Glazer was a supreme iconoclast. He was very, very -- he was very, very progressive. Rick, I guess, is also very progressive. But David, David was a funny guy. Rick made it more serious, I thought, but it was still pretty unorthodox. I -- I just can't comment, that's not my department.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. What about music, and -- and those kind of...

GLANTZ: One of the things we did was we brought in some very nice cantor, as I recall. And David's father was a -- somewhere along the line, we had someone playing guitar, it was very informal, very nice. And Stuart Sacks used to blow 35:00the chofar every year at ortho -- at Yom Kippur. That was one of the changes we made also, we were able to afford a cantor, got a very, very nice one. I don't recall the details, but it was all part of that package.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. Was there every conversations in terms of, um, practices like yarmulke and tallis, and things like that for the community?

GLANTZ: No, not that I'm aware of, no.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. It was just sort of a personal choice, or...

GLANTZ: I'm not really sure, I can't comment. I just...

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm, mmhmm. Um, let's see... I think we've covered my -- my questions. Is there other things that I didn't think to ask about?

GLANTZ: No, you've done a thorough -- done a thorough job. I'm surprised no one told you about those people, but you certainly should follow up with them, they can probably give you a lot of background that I don't have.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I'm trying to think who else you might want to talk to. Belle and Rubin are both gone, of course.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Um, yeah, you might talk to Robert Ravitz. He was one of the early -- the early, not founders, but one of the early part -- he lives in Manhattan now.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I'm sure he lost touch with the Synagogue when he moved out, but he was one of the very early founders and supporters, one of the early supporters. Um...

SULLIVAN: Was there a distinction when you first became a member between like founding members and new members?

GLANTZ: You've spoken to Jack Cohen, I guess.

SULLIVAN: Not yet, I plan to.

GLANTZ: He's on your list?

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: You know who you might want to talk to, I just thought of it. One of the projects which we undertook through my wife when I was President, was we painted the whole building. We refurbished it, we painted it, and the fellow we got to paint it, who later became our painter of our house, truly crazy, I mean really off the wall crazy, name is Abe Rheingold. I will -- I still have his -- he loves to talk. He might well have some background information for you on this whole project.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I will -- I have his number somewhere, so I will get it and I will call you. Lay -- we used him as a painter at our house for many years, then we sort 38:00of lost touch. To the best of my knowledge, he still lives in Flatbush, and he painted the whole building by himself.

SULLIVAN: Oh, wow. [laughter]

GLANTZ: You know, truly off the wall. Really an off the wall, he really an off the wall, hard -- extraordinarily hard working guy. Painted the whole inside of the building by himself. Just for kicks, I will get you his number. If you can get him to talk, he -- he is a kick. You know, you'll really get a lot of fun out him. And he just might have some interesting background information on the whole project, I'm sure he remembers it.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I'll -- I have your card, and I'll get his number. Actually, I have to think of where I have it, somewhere. And if you can get ahold of him, you certainly should look up Robert Ravitz, who is in Manhattan now. Avram, I'm sure, loves to talk. I'm trying to think of who else might be worthwhile. Who 39:00have you spoken to so far?

SULLIVAN: Um, Rita Schwartz, and...

GLANTZ: Rita Schwartz, right.

SULLIVAN: Eugene Schwartz.

GLANTZ: They were -- they came later on, I think.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm. And, um...

GLANTZ: Jack Cohen, I think, is a founding -- he was President before I was, I believe he's founding. His wife just died, so it might be a little...

SULLIVAN: That's why I'm waiting to contact him, yeah.

GLANTZ: Yeah, yeah. Um, who are the other founders, gee, I don't know, I lost track. I think Ravitz was a founder, I think he was, I think he was.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: And he was the one, he was a neighbor of mine at Garden Place, he was the one that got me involved. But I -- I'll get you Abe Rheingold. If you can get a hold of him and get -- get some time out of him, he's a funny guy, you'll get a kick out of talking to him.

SULLIVAN: Yeah, that sounds great.

GLANTZ: Yeah, yeah. And it's a whole different point of view, a whole different point of view. He painted the whole inside of the building by himself.

SULLIVAN: That's a huge project. [laughter]

GLANTZ: Great guy, really a lot of fun. Crazy as a bedbug.

SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GLANTZ: Crazy, crazy little bedbug, but nice. Anyway. What else can I do for you?

SULLIVAN: Um, do you mind if I ask just a question about Brooklyn Tech when you were there, because I'm always curious about the high schools, and that's such a great school. What was the -- what was the student community like when you were there?

GLANTZ: Well, I entered, there was a problem for me with Brooklyn Tech. I -- I got out of public school in, um, January of '44, middle of the year, it was the middle of the year. And I went to Brooklyn Tech. Now, Brooklyn Tech was a four 41:00year school. It was not a neighborhood school. My neighborhood friends either went to Madison or Midwood. And they had a program, so that if you went to them in the middle of the year like that, you could make -- you could do it in three and a half years. So they all, in those days, I thought that was a bad thing, they all got out of high school a year ahead of me, went on to college. I -- I graduated from Brooklyn Tech in January of '48, and I had to start -- didn't start college until September, so I had to -- I worked for six months, so I lost -- in those days, I thought I lost these days, you're going to trip to Europe or something like that, nowadays. [laughter]

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Brooklyn Tech was, in those days, the best schools in New York in those days were Brooklyn Tech, Stuyvesant, and Bronx Science. And music and art is sort of off to the side. I -- I think, from what I gather, and this is just 42:00hearsay, Tech has sort of lost some of its status. Stuyvesant is probably still number one, and Science, number two. If I recall, and Tech, you know, is right down the street here, that the student body was about 6,000, total student body about 6,000, and it was divided into one group was college prep, which I was, and the others were called, what the hell were they called, not terminal, not trade, but something to that effect, where after high school they were being trained to go out and get jobs, not go onto college.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: And I forget, there was a special name for those -- those tracks. I forget. Anyway, Tech is a good school, it's a good school. I think I got a good 43:00education there, and uh, it was not a neighborhood school, and that was one of the problems. My friends were all in the neighborhood, I had to travel by subway, and that kind of thing. But...

SULLIVAN: And so your classmates were coming from all over?

GLANTZ: All over.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: You had to take an entrance exam, which you still do. Yes, we had classmates from all over, some from Long Island. They came from out of the city as well. Um, it was -- it was a good school -- it was a good school. Anyway, from there, I went on to MIT, so I was sort of tracked. But...

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm, and what was the Brooklyn to Boston transition like?

GLANTZ: The Brooklyn?

SULLIVAN: The Brooklyn to Boston, or Cambridge transition like?

GLANTZ: Well, Boston's a great school town. Do you know Boston at all?

SULLIVAN: Yeah, I'm from Massachusetts, so I know.

GLANTZ: Oh, it's a great school town. You know, it's full of young kids, it's a marvelous school town.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I entered MIT, I guess, in '48, and there was a -- there was a -- there were a sprinkling of returning veterans and us. I was a provincial kid from Brooklyn, I didn't know from nothing. You know, I heard it was a really big deal to get on the Yankee Clipper at one o'clock and take the train up to -- a really big deal. I'll tell you what the trans -- the transition, I'm not sure if this is what you're getting at, but the transition for me, the thing I noticed most when I got to MIT was that I was at a handicap compared to my fellow students 45:00who had come from private schools, because they had learned how to work.

SULLIVAN: How do you mean?

GLANTZ: Work. How to organize and do their schoolwork.

SULLIVAN: Oh, mmhmm.

GLANTZ: I sort of, at Brooklyn Tech, I never realized, I worked, but I didn't know how to -- I didn't know how to structure, I just did it. But when I got to college, and there was some of my -- a number of my classmates who had come from private schools, they had gotten a much better grounding, a much better training in how to do school work, how to organize, how to structure, how to go after something. That was the thing I noticed most, definitely.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: All of our kids went to boarding schools. We sent them all away to learn that kind of stuff. But the transition from Brooklyn, in those days, it was a small town, really, a very, very small town. And, um, and Boston still was too. 46:00It was a great, really terrific town. Still one of my favorite cities, you know. You from -- where are you from?

SULLIVAN: Acton.

GLANTZ: Yeah, just outside, sure.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Well, you know Nantucket that way.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Yeah, we spoke a little bit. Anyway, that's the story. What brought you down here?

SULLIVAN: Grad school.

GLANTZ: Where?

SULLIVAN: At NYU.

GLANTZ: Uh huh. My wife's an NYU graduate.

SULLIVAN: Oh.

GLANTZ: She was a -- she -- well, she went to Thomas Jefferson High School here, one of the local schools in East New York, and um, got out of high school, went to Hunter College for one term, decided she didn't want to be a school teacher, she didn't want to do all of those things that were typical in those days, so she dropped out of school, got married, got divorced, married me, and at the age 47:00of 35, whatever it was, 40, I forget now, maybe 40, when she had a lot of kids, had children and all, she went back to school.

SULLIVAN: Oh!

GLANTZ: She started here at Pratt, then transferred over to NYU, she was an art history major, and she says it's the smartest thing she ever did in her life, other than marrying me of course. [laughter]

SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GLANTZ: Was to go back to school, but she said she appreciated it so much more, and when you do it when you're a kid, you sort of [inaudible] doing it. But she became an art history -- you know the institute, the NYU -- the Art Institute there?

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: And she said she just appreciated it so much more that she was able to do this, and she went at it with a real mature attitude, was doing something she loved.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: It was an interesting experience, and it was very hard, you had a family, kids, the whole lot of -- you know, it's a whole thing. So anyway, she's an NYU graduate, so...

SULLIVAN: That's great.

GLANTZ: Oh yeah, she's very proud of that, it's a real accomplishment, but anyway.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: Well, I hope I've done some good for you, it's been fun.

SULLIVAN: Yes, yes, thank you so much.

GLANTZ: Made me think of a lot of things that I haven't thought of in a lot of years, that's for sure, wow.

SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GLANTZ: Boy, a long history. You forget how many years go by, how fast it's happened too. Now what happens with this, what do you do next?

SULLIVAN: Um, this gets sent to a transcriptionist, who will transcribe it.

GLANTZ: Right.

SULLIVAN: And then I correct the transcript for the simple errors that the transcriptionist makes, and then I can send you a copy, and you can, if there's other details that we got wrong in the transcript, you can fix those, and then 49:00both the audio recording and the transcript go into the archives here and at the Synagogue, and they are open to the public and searchable, and with the release form you can -- you know, there's -- you can modify that, like you can say...

GLANTZ: I have nothing -- nothing I've said I'm ashamed of or isn't true.

SULLIVAN: OK. [laughter]

GLANTZ: Nothing, no secrets. Nothing I wish I had done.

SULLIVAN: All right.

GLANTZ: And do they amass this into a book or anything like that?

SULLIVAN: I'm not sure what we're -- for the Historical Society, I don't know what our plans are. I think that the Synagogue is thinking about doing some kind of an exhibit there, using some of the audio, so some clips.

GLANTZ: Right.

SULLIVAN: But I haven't talked with them further about that plan.

GLANTZ: OK, do you want me to sign something now?

SULLIVAN: Yes.

GLANTZ: Here? Where?

SULLIVAN: Uh yeah, over there.

GLANTZ: Today is the, uh...

SULLIVAN: It's the 9th. Great.

GLANTZ: I will -- and I will get you Abe Rheingold's -- for a kick, it might be, if you can get him --

SULLIVAN: Yeah.

GLANTZ: -- It's a whole new perspective, and I'm not sure if he can contribute anything really worthwhile, but who knows.

SULLIVAN: Yeah, that sounds great. And would you like a copy of the interview, because I can also send you the audio.

GLANTZ: No. Not particularly.

SULLIVAN: OK. [laughter]

GLANTZ: Not really. I wish I had more to tell you, but that's about it.

SULLIVAN: No, this has been good.

GLANTZ: OK.

[Interview Interrupted.]

SULLIVAN: OK. So, April 9th, 2010, part two.

GLANTZ: Anyway, Rick Jacobs married Suzy Friedman, and Suzy Friedman's family 51:00has this -- no other way to describe it, but very large, very elegant, very spectacular home out in East Hampton right on the water. And the wedding was held there. And Rick, I guess Rick arranged for busloads of -- a busload of congregants to come out and join the party, and David Glazer was there telling vulgar jokes. [laughter]

SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GLANTZ: Which is very much part of David Glazer's persona.

SULLIVAN: I did not know that, that adds to... [laughter]

GLANTZ: Very much a part of David Glazer's persona. As I think of it now, my daughter Jennifer got married at our home on Nantucket about six or seven years ago, and David Glazer came up to perform the service, also telling dirty jokes. [laughter]

SULLIVAN: [laughter]

GLANTZ: If I may phrase it that way. It was very much David's style, but David was very endearing, very endearing kind of guy.

SULLIVAN: Mmhmm.

GLANTZ: So that was the story of Rick Jacobs' wedding.

SULLIVAN: That's great.

GLANTZ: You know, the Friedman's as you gathered, were very wealthy, very established, and so that's that, OK?

SULLIVAN: All right, thank you.