Luis Hernandez

VAZQUEZ: Today, I'm about to introduce and to interview Commissioner Luis Hernandez, a resident of Brooklyn for over forty years, a contributor, a politically active individual, originator of the Voters Club, and also, in conjunction with his brothers, has contributed to the entire Spanish community, but more specifically to Brooklyn. Commissioner Hernandez, the Long Island Historical Society thanks you very much for giving us this interview, especially since you've been here since 1926. In 1926, you came to live in Brooklyn.

HERNANDEZ: Approximately.

VAZQUEZ: Approximately December of 1926. Where did you come to live?

HERNANDEZ: We moved into 75 Degraw Street. That was right along the waterfront in Red Hook, where the first Puerto Rican community came in, I would say, on the banana boat along the docks of Atlantic Avenue and Hamilton Avenue.

VAZQUEZ: Who is "we"?

HERNANDEZ: I would say the Puerto Rican community.

VAZQUEZ: No, I mean the ones that came on the boat with you. Who came with you?

HERNANDEZ: At that particular time, the first Puerto Ricans that were arriving in Brooklyn, which was the first Puerto Rican (I would say) colony, the largest one, was Carlos Tapia, the Louis Webers, Antonia Denis, Echevarría--all the 2:00pioneers of that time. Possibly some of them have passed away, but there are just a few around.

VAZQUEZ: You came to live at 75 Degraw. Was that a two-family house or a tenement house?

HERNANDEZ: It was a little tenement house, about six families. The bathroom was in the yard. [laughter] The bathroom was in the kitchen, an open kitchen. And in those times, there wasn't such a thing as the HUD laws whereby people could--

[Interview interrupted.]

HERNANDEZ: Jesus Colon.

VAZQUEZ: You came to live at Degraw Street.

HERNANDEZ: Right.

VAZQUEZ: How old were you then?

HERNANDEZ: I must have been approximately two, three years old.

VAZQUEZ: When did you start getting active in the community and involved?

HERNANDEZ: It seems like we got active as soon as we got out of the--into life. Because my father was a man--

VAZQUEZ: What was your father's name?

HERNANDEZ: Luis Hernandez also. My father was a very active man in Puerto Rico. He was a tobacco worker. Puerto Rico tobacco workers, at that particular time, were the most, let's say, militant people in Puerto Rico. Therefore, when he arrived in the United States, he continued. He opened his club on Columbia Street, near the Happy Hour.

VAZQUEZ: Where was this?

HERNANDEZ: This was about the same time.

VAZQUEZ: I mean around what street was this?

HERNANDEZ: Oh, this was between President and Union Street.

VAZQUEZ: And your father's club was called--?

HERNANDEZ: The Spanish American Club.

VAZQUEZ: That was the first one in those days.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, the first Spanish American Club. But it was not only dealing with the Spanish-speaking community because, my father being a very progressive man, also helped the Philippinos that were in that particular area. They were few in numbers so, therefore, they joined. They spoke Spanish. So they also joined the Spanish American Club. And then, there were Italians who felt that they needed help because of the economic situation in those days, so they also joined the club. I think my father's was one of the first progressive organizations in the community to open the door to everybody, regardless of 5:00race, color, religion. [Interview interrupted.] --to Degraw Street. And then, we started joining the Little Italy Settlement House boxing. We were seven brothers and one sister. We all joined the boxing team. Because during that time, being that the Puerto Rican community was very small, you had a fight from one block to another. It was sort of areas where the Puerto Ricans, in order to go from, let's say, Columbia Street to Hicks Street, Italian gangs or the Irish gangs on the other side, Sumner, on the other side of the basin, they used to control those areas. So the Irish on one side kept the Puerto Ricans off, and the Italians on the other side kept the--

VAZQUEZ: Do you remember any of the gangs, their names?

HERNANDEZ: They'd call themselves by the street, gangs. The Coffee Park Gang. 6:00Remember down near Erie Basin? Near Columbia Street and Hamilton Avenue, there's a little park. That's where all the fights used to start and finish. We used to have a lot of interest in sport at that time because the Puerto Ricans were all boxers. They had to be boxers [laughter] in order to protect themselves. So we then went into the Little Italy Settlement House and had our boxing team.

VAZQUEZ: Where was the Little Italy Settlement House?

HERNANDEZ: On Union Street and Hicks, where today the, ah, Queens Expressway goes through. So, when the Queens Expressway was built, they knocked the Little Italy Settlement House.

VAZQUEZ: Were there other clubs in the area besides your father's club?

HERNANDEZ: Yes. At that time, first--In 1928 was the first Democratic Puerto 7:00Rican club, which was called the Borinquen Democratic Club, formed by Antonia Denis, Jesús Colón, Giboyeaux, Carlos Tapia.

VAZQUEZ: Do you know Giboyeaux well?

HERNANDEZ: Surely.

VAZQUEZ: He still lives at Lawrence, 95 Lawrence.

HERNANDEZ: Yes. How's his wife?

VAZQUEZ: His wife, Emilia's fine. I saw her when she came back from her physical, and she looks beautiful.

HERNANDEZ: Oh, yes. She always was a beautiful woman. [laughter]

VAZQUEZ: He looks fine --shirt and tie. He looked great.

HERNANDEZ: How long ago did you see him?

VAZQUEZ: I saw him two weeks ago.

HERNANDEZ: Oh, yes? Always a little limping?

VAZQUEZ: I didn't notice too much limping. But he had a little cold.

HERNANDEZ: But in that time--that was the first Democratic Club open. Then, 8:00later on, the Vanguardia opened up. Those were the three--

VAZQUEZ: What was La Vanguardia Puertorriqueña?

HERNANDEZ: The Vanguardia Puertorriqueña started out as more of a society group--the higher society. They used to have affairs of Puerto Rican culture at the Public School 5, which today, I believe is Brooklyn Tech or something like that, on Jay and Tillary.

VAZQUEZ: Westinghouse.

HERNANDEZ: Westinghouse. Right.

VAZQUEZ: That used to be Public School 5?

HERNANDEZ: Right. That used to be Public School 5. And every year, they used to have a Mother's Day affair--a beautiful affair. It was like the society, cultural.

VAZQUEZ: That's where Rafael Hernandez and Luis Hernandez and a lot of the outstanding--

HERNANDEZ: Right. Almost all of them came from that particular area. The Puerto Rican community started moving slowly from Columbia Street to Johnson Street to Sands Street before the development came and took that; where today you have the American Red Cross and you have the Post Office. All that used to be gradually a Puerto Rican area. Sands Street; when the sailors were there years ago. But the Puerto Rican community was small.

VAZQUEZ: What other clubs were there, besides the Borinquen? The First Democratic club was the Borinquen?

HERNANDEZ: Right. Then, they formed also another Democratic club on Sands Street. I don't remember who was running that, but there was another Puerto Rican Democratic Club. But it seems like Louis Weber was considered like the 10:00county Puerto Rican leader prior to Cestero, right, because Cestero came later on.

VAZQUEZ: Cestero?

HERNANDEZ: Yes, Cestero. Louis Weber was then the king of the numbers at that time, too.

VAZQUEZ: I heard he's the first Puerto Rican millionaire in Brooklyn--four and a half million dollars.

HERNANDEZ: Right. He was one of the richest men at that time. He was involved in--

VAZQUEZ: Banking numbers?

HERNANDEZ: Right. But at the same time, he was recognized by the Puerto Rican community to be a very pleasant man. On Christmas and Thanksgiving, he gave out thousands and thousands of bags full of turkeys with all kinds of food for the 11:00poor. Because at that time, don't forget, we're going into a period of 1929, when the crash came through. After the crash, from then on, the community, just like every other community, was very poor. You had the Depression. There were lines of people all over. The Salvation Army, that was on Sumner Avenue, used to give out doughnuts and coffee. I remember myself with the boys, and everybody used to go down the line to get soup, doughnuts, and coffee. Everybody used to stand there to get the soup because things were tough. The Salvation Army was, I think, one of the most progressive church. Although I made my Communion and 12:00Confirmation and came from St. Peter's Church, I--

VAZQUEZ: That makes two of us. That makes all of us. Most Puerto Ricans went to St. Peter's, la capilla.

HERNANDEZ: Right. But at the same time, I used to split myself on a Sunday to go to the Salvation Army during the afternoon and, in the morning; I went to the Catholic Church--St. Peter's. Those were the two areas that I went to.

VAZQUEZ: Did you get to know Sister Carmelita well?

HERNANDEZ: Oh, yes. Sister Carmelita was, at that time in St. Peter's, the sister of everybody. I mean, everybody knew Sister Carmelita and Father… Father Baez. There was another church that I think you probably know about. It was on President Street. So many people you know, sometimes you forget their 13:00names. But he was, for many years, at President and near Court Street. That was a Methodist Church. That was a very, I would say, large congregation at that time. And you had also Reverendo Fernandez on Atlantic Avenue. They were a big family--I think more "hallelujah" there.

VAZQUEZ: Pentecostal.

HERNANDEZ: Pentecostal, yes.

VAZQUEZ: You mentioned someone named Cestero.

HERNANDEZ: Yes.

VAZQUEZ: Who was Cestero?

HERNANDEZ: Cestero was the one the Democratic Party recognized after Louis Weber.

VAZQUEZ: What year was this?

HERNANDEZ: I believe it was 1950, just prior to 1950. [Interview interrupted.] 14:00The Salvation Army --Why people used to--

VAZQUEZ: A lot of Puerto Ricans used to go there?

HERNANDEZ: Yes. They used to go because they had a little program. They sent children to the camps in the summertime.

VAZQUEZ: The Fresh Air Fund.

HERNANDEZ: Fresh Air. And I think that they were the first ones of the different religious groups that really had their camps integrated in such a way that you didn't feel that there was any discrimination. Whereas, I, being a Catholic, sometimes I wonder, at that particular time--I think you could recall that the Catholic Church at St. Peter's, the Puerto Rican community services were held in 15:00the cellar. That's one of the complaints we made years ago. The Irish were up on the top. So there was that friction for a while, until later on they realized that changes had to be done and, gradually, there was a change where we were on the top with everybody else.

VAZQUEZ: How about Jaime [unintelligible]--Did you ever get to speak to Carlos Tapia?

HERNANDEZ: Oh, yes.

VAZQUEZ: Or Louis Weber?

HERNANDEZ: Yes. Carlos Tapia and Louis Weber used to come home many times because my father was politically inclined. At that time, my father was the one who was holding the voter registration drives, even though it seems like when we talk about voter registration drive, it's almost unbelievable that we've been having it for years. But there was a large problem. In those days, to really 16:00vote, you had to really pass the literacy test. This was one of the worst drawbacks for the community. Whereas today, anyone could vote by just saying that they had gone to school in Puerto Rico to the sixth grade.

VAZQUEZ: But isn't that what the clubs were for, like el Betances?

HERNANDEZ: Yes.

VAZQUEZ: They helped--

HERNANDEZ: Educate.

VAZQUEZ: At that time.

HERNANDEZ: Right. That's true. But don't forget, that was the first generation. Almost everyone was the first generation coming here, so they spoke mostly Spanish. Therefore, you didn't have the young group today who are born here--the second, third generation. They go to school here. So therefore, there isn't that difficulty of trying to teach them some literacy tests as--You're talking about a group of yesterday who, arriving from Puerto Rico, and they only know how to 17:00speak Spanish. So, therefore, it was very difficult. That's why the Puerto Rican community was having troubles. The only jobs that were open for them were along the waterfront. And even that was difficult because of the kick-backs in those days that, in order to get a job, you had to pay for the job. You gotta kick-back to the gangsters. Therefore, it was a very difficult thing to find a job. The next place to find a job was the factories. There wasn't such a thing as a Puerto Rican professional group at that time. You didn't find anyone working in the city government. That, today, is a novelty. [laughter] But in those days, it was rare you found anybody working in government. Because, first, 18:00they just had arrived and, second, there were few professionals. I imagine the only ones who came here from Puerto Rico--I mean the ones who came here were poor. The rich, like today, they stay in Puerto Rico.

VAZQUEZ: Did you know Jimmy Kelly? Did you get to meet Jimmy Kelly?

HERNANDEZ: Yes. James Kelly, as he was called, was then considered, although he was Irish, the Puerto Rican leader. In those days, the Irish dominated the political field. So, Jim Kelly felt that the Puerto Rican community needed a leader, a spokesman. And he became the Puerto Rican spokesman at that time. He brought in Louis Weber, Carlos Tapia, and Jesus Colón. That's how they formed 19:00then the Democratic Club. Jimmy Kelly was then the spokesman, who used to bring these people to the Democratic county leader or the leader of the district and tell them, "Look, this is who's doing what," like an organizer.

VAZQUEZ: When did your Voters Club come into existence? I say "yours" because it's your club. The only one I remember besides--she was interviewed in Puerto Rico, by the way--is Betty Villa.

HERNANDEZ: Oh, Betty Villa.

VAZQUEZ: Because she always said that that was your club. Anything that went on there was yours.

HERNANDEZ: Let me say this. The Voters Club--We started in 1959, 1960.

VAZQUEZ: Wasn't that a throwback, something like to your father's club?

HERNANDEZ: Yes. Well, there was a difference in the sense of how my father worked. I wouldn't say too much, because we worked the same. In a sense, I like to integrate my clubs. But it is a non-partisan group. Although I'm a Democrat, my feeling was that we should try to get as many Puerto Ricans to register and vote. I didn't care where they registered or what party designation they put when they registered. I knew eventually they'd all be Democrats anyhow so, therefore, I first fought for them to register. Now, I felt that--Don't forget 21:00for a period of time, I was out in the sea, in the war. So when I came back was when I started the Voters Club.

VAZQUEZ: That's during World War II.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, during World War II.

VAZQUEZ: You were in the Navy or Merchant Marines?

HERNANDEZ: I was a Lieutenant J.G. for the Maritime Service in the Merchant Marine.

VAZQUEZ: Isn't that true of your brother, Julius, also.

HERNANDEZ: Yes. Julius also was a Lieutenant J.G. He was a purser, pharmacist. And then, Benny also was in the Merchant Marines, and Eddie. When I came back…I went through almost to the Korean War in the Merchant Marine. And then, I started actively, in 1953, opening up my first club, which was the Spanish American Civic Organization, which today still exists.

VAZQUEZ: That was on Flushing?

HERNANDEZ: No. We opened our club on De Kalb and Tompkins. When we moved from, uh, when we moved from South Brooklyn, we went into the--

VAZQUEZ: Sunset Park?

HERNANDEZ: No. It was today considered Fort Greene area. But that was Pearl Street or below. Columbia Heights. I'm sorry. Columbia Heights. There were many Puerto Ricans living then on Pearl Street, which today is gone. There were many people living on Sands Street because, as people were moving from Columbia Street, they were moving from Columbia to Johnson, Pearl Street, Sands Street. Then there was that big urban renewal, and they made that the American Red 23:00Cross, knocked that whole area down. And today we have those, uh--

VAZQUEZ: Concord Village and the projects.

HERNANDEZ: Right. Then you had the projects up there. You had Concord Village. So then, the Puerto Rican community gradually disappeared from that area, and just high-rises came along Jay Street. And they almost got rid of all the Puerto Ricans [laughter] in that particular area.

VAZQUEZ: Most of them went to Williamsburg.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, Williamsburg. Now, they also moved into Cobble Hill and Gowanus. There's still quite a big--moving towards Bay Ridge. That's the big Puerto Rican--

VAZQUEZ: Right. Between 39th Street and 60th.

HERNANDEZ: That's right.

VAZQUEZ: 39th and 60th from the East River to 7th Avenue.

HERNANDEZ: Right.

VAZQUEZ: I've done a complete survey of that area. Door-to-door I've checked.

HERNANDEZ: I was campaigning in that area this Saturday.

VAZQUEZ: Julius Santana lives there. He has a little club.

HERNANDEZ: Yes. [Interview interrupted.]

VAZQUEZ: --a heavy, heavy Puerto Rican area. In fact, there are Puerto Ricans that have been there thirty, forty years. They own blocks. A lot of houses are owned by Puerto Ricans. They're the ones that should get out to vote.

HERNANDEZ: Yes. That's why I was trying to--

VAZQUEZ: Especially in the schools. They have a lot of hassles when they go to vote. I've been there personally. They have.

HERNANDEZ: That's why I encourage as many people as possible to work as inspectors for the Attorney General, rather than as captains of a political party, so that they will be able to exert certain power within the board rather than just being a captain of a district.

VAZQUEZ: How do you get into inspector?

HERNANDEZ: All you have to do--and I've been doing this for the past fifteen years, and I encourage everybody--is prior to an election or primary, the 25:00Attorney General makes out a call for people who would like to volunteer and become inspector for the Attorney General. You could either be an attorney or not. If you're an attorney, you have a position as a Special Attorney General. If you're not an attorney, then you are a Special Investigator for the Attorney General. But your authority is so broad that you could overrule the Chairman of the Board there and open all the books if you want to. You could have people arrested there, too. Yet, you're just a citizen and you don't have to belong to any political party. I mean, you don't have to have the influence of saying, "This is a paid position," because you are a volunteer.

So you go there. You've got to be a registered voter. You go there; you have all 26:00the authority during the whole day. They pay you for your food and car fare, and that's all. But it's a thrill because you see how things happen in the board. If you see any sort of discrepancy that you feel should be stopped, any abuse, you right away stop it and you say you represent the Attorney General's office and, right away, they give you respect. Everyone from the police down, they have to respect you because you're coming from the Attorney General's office. They give you a book to study the election laws so that you are able to apply the election law in that particular place. [Interview interrupted.]

HERNANDEZ: --people's political party. I feel that if a person--And we have 27:00Puerto Ricans that are Republicans like Liberals and so on. I respect them as a person because they should be respected. They have their own parties and they have their own ideas, ideology. You can't just go ahead and tell a person, "Look, from now on, I want you to be this here." You do your own campaigning to convince your people to vote for your party.

VAZQUEZ: You worked also with Celia Vice.

HERNANDEZ: Yes.

VAZQUEZ: You and Celia Vice are about the first Puerto Ricans in Williamsburg to be very active.

HERNANDEZ: Right. We first started forming the real voting power. In fact, when Celia Vice ran as Assemblywoman, my brother, Eddie, ran for Councilman in 1965. I ran for District Leader also, but in the Bedford-Stuyvesant area. My other brother ran--In the times when our community was small, my other brother ran for 28:00Assemblyman. So that--It was tough, at that time, for a Puerto Rican to win, but we did it for the purpose of getting people interested in the political structure and getting them interested in voting. If somebody wasn't going to be the goat where he felt at least we have a Puerto Rican candidate; it's not a question, are we going to win, but at least the people will come out and say, "We have a candidate. Why don't we go out and vote for him?" or at least we say, "We've got a candidate. Let's register and vote so at least he has an opportunity." We knew very well that that wasn't so because when you represent only fifteen percent or twenty percent of the district, you know very well that that isn't so. But we know very well that today things have changed and are changing.

VAZQUEZ: How is the political machinery now different from when you started? 29:00Like, in 1929, when your father had his club, are the clubs now different? Do they run pretty much the same? What's the difference between the political clubs and the political organization of the Puerto Rican in Brooklyn when you first came and as now? I ask you, Commissioner, because I know that you've been actively --I mean, you said you came at the age of two or three. But I know that as soon as you and your brothers could walk, you've been involved in politics. You grew up in the Puerto Rican political system in Brooklyn. I don't know of anyone that knows it better, including Louis Weber or anybody else.

HERNANDEZ: Let me tell you, the thing that you have to recognize is that the power of any political club is respected by the number of votes you have. Since the Puerto Rican community, at that particular time, was small, there wasn't 30:00such a thing as the political club open to the Puerto Rican community due to the fact that we didn't have any power, let's say. So we couldn't be the margin of victory for any candidate, so they concentrate on the votes where their margin of victory will be a success. Let's say, for instance, as the Puerto Rican community grew, then the political power in those districts that seen the change, this transition, they then started also encouraging the Puerto Ricans to join their club. But really, I would say that it isn't too long when the Puerto Rican really started getting themselves involved in a sort of a campaign 31:00possibly, like in Puerto Rico--simply because there was a lot of apathy. There wasn't anything to gain from joining the political structure because no Puerto Rican could be appointed until 1961. I don't think a Puerto Rican was ever appointed to any high position until I was appointed City Collector of the City of New York as a commissioner of all the city collection, of all the money in the City of New York for the five boroughs. And then, the following month, Herman Badillo was then appointed to the Deputy Commissioner of this department, which I am today. He was--the position I have today.

VAZQUEZ: Under Wagner.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, under Wagner. I also was appointed under Wagner. Prior to that time, there wasn't any Puerto Rican ever appointed to any position of importance. Therefore, there really wasn't any sort of, kind of a reason for the 32:00Puerto Rican community to really go out and campaign as much as today.

[Interview interrupted.]

VAZQUEZ: The first city collector and the first Puerto Rican in all of public office up here, up in City Hall.

HERNANDEZ: Right. Then you have to consider--

VAZQUEZ: You said five councilmen were here.

HERNANDEZ: No. I mean, five assemblymen. And now this year we just had one State Senator which was Bobby Garcia. But this year, now, we have two State Senators who were elected in The Bronx.

VAZQUEZ: Isn't Bobby Garcia from the Bronx also?

HERNANDEZ: Also.

VAZQUEZ: How about in Brooklyn? Who do we have in Brooklyn?

HERNANDEZ: In Brooklyn, unfortunately, we only have one fellow that was elected, and that was a district that was gerrymandered, let's say, in such a way so that 33:00a Puerto Rican could be elected. That's Luis Olmedo. I think that maybe within the next year or two years we will have an Assemblyman and possibly a State Senator. I think that it may be a possibility that the party itself will recognize that there's a need for an Assemblyman and they will support an Assemblyman for--

VAZQUEZ: The Democratic Party.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, the Democratic Party. To run in the Puerto Rican or minority district in the Republican Party is useless because--Not the question that so much it's useless--it's that he won't be elected. Therefore, you could run--and there are Puerto Ricans that are running like, today, Pascual Sanchez is running in the 17th Senatorial District. He's a doctor. But his chances of winning--[Interview interrupted.] The chances of a Puerto Rican winning in any 34:00other party is very slim. So that only when the Puerto Rican is nominated and elected in the Democratic Party, you know very well that he will be elected on Election Day just like every one of the--Now, we also have a Puerto Rican Congressman, which you know who he is. And, today, we have a beautiful Puerto Rican cabinet in the City of New York with about three Commissioners, one Administrator, which the first time--

VAZQUEZ: Who are the three Commissioners in the cabinet?

HERNANDEZ: Well, you have Aramis Gomez.

VAZQUEZ: What's his position?

HERNANDEZ: The Commissioner of Relocation. You have Nilca Torado, Commissioner of YSA. You have Peter Lugo, Commissioner of CDA. Then, you have Joe Arrazo, 35:00Special Assistant to the Mayor. You have Lorenzo Casanova, Special Assistant to Kavanaugh, who's the Deputy Mayor.

Then, Deputy Commissioners; you have myself as Deputy Commissioner here in Department of Relocation. You have Luis Necco, Deputy Commissioner of Department of Police. You have Olga Mendez, Deputy Commissioner of Child Care. You have, let me see, Luis Cadiz, Deputy Commissioner of Correction. You have Miranda. He's the Assistant Administrator in Department of Finance. You have Rivera, 36:00Deputy Commissioner CDA. You have Martinez--You've got two Martinezes--Américo Martinez which is Assistant Administrator of Model City, and Gomersito Martinez who is Administrator in Model City in The Bronx. You have, I believe, besides that two or three other Deputy Commissioners.

[Interview interrupted.]

VAZQUEZ: The outstanding Republicans, now, like Santiago Grevi.

HERNANDEZ: Yes. He's Deputy Commissioner in Narcotics. You have Roberto Ruiz, 37:00Commissioner in Human Rights. You have Santaella. She's also Human Rights. I think Commissioner.

VAZQUEZ: What happened to Amalia Betances?

HERNANDEZ: Oh, yes. Amalia Betances is Chairman of the New York City Housing, also like a position of Commissioner in the New York City Housing. In the Federal level, we have also Puerto Ricans: Victor Rivera, who's the New York District Director representing the Small Business Administration. You have Aponte.

VAZQUEZ: The Small Business Administration. Commissioner, wasn't that your baby at one time or another?

HERNANDEZ: Yes. That was my baby. I started there, and then I was appointed to this position, so I left the Small Business Administration. My brother also was 38:00in the Small Business Administration--was the first one to organize one of the 502 development corporations. Then you have in the Federal also Angel Rivera, OEO. And you have Aponte. He's Manpower.

VAZQUEZ: Eddie Aponte.

HERNANDEZ: Yes, Eddie Aponte. I think Mercado also.

VAZQUEZ: He's an assistant to Angel Rivera.

HERNANDEZ: Right. Now, you also have in the New York State, New York State directors of offices like Gabriel Guadarrama, Director of the New York State Department of Commerce Office in the Bronx. You've got Wilfredo Jorge, Director 39:00of the Brooklyn Office. You've got Alvarado, Director of Manhattan Office. I would say that the Puerto Rican community has advanced during the past ten or fifteen years.

[Interview interrupted.]

VAZQUEZ: Do you believe that there any unions or political organizations that have been historically helping the Puerto Ricans for many, many years?

HERNANDEZ: Well, I don't say so. I think that what's happening now is that they are learning. I imagine the Puerto Rican labor leaders such as Mario Abreu--You have heard of Mario Abreu, no?

VAZQUEZ: Yes. He has been here a long time.

HERNANDEZ: Yes. Mario Abreu was one of those leaders of years ago, too. Now, he's the vice president of District 65 at 13 Astor Place.

VAZQUEZ: That's still there?

HERNANDEZ: Yes. Now, they have formed a Puerto Rican Hispanic Labor Committee, I 40:00imagine, which is also funding some of the political action programs. I think that in the last ten years, they went in with the Kennedy campaign and Johnson campaign. I think now they're working very hard in the Carey campaign. Then, you've got to consider that also another change is going about. And that is that there are twelve Hispanic societies in the civil service that we never had before. You have David Felix, President of the Hispanic Transit Society.

VAZQUEZ: How old are those?

HERNANDEZ: I would say they are now about six, seven years old. But they are growing by leap and bound because they are having yearly, or even every so many 41:00months, classes and recruiting people to go into the Transit Authority, just what Blacks used to do. They are doing now their own training courses and making a lot of publicity to try and get them to get into the Transit. You have a very nice Police Hispanic Society. You have Correction Department. Now, besides that, you have a Grand Council which Hector Lopez is the President of.

VAZQUEZ: Who's Hector Lopez?

HERNANDEZ: He is from the Department of Correction. He became now the President of the Grand Council which represents the thirteen Hispanic Societies. So, now; they have grown. Every political candidate, regardless of what he may 42:00be--running for governor, for a city-wide position--wants the support of these associations because they represent, first, responsible people, working people, who, in reality, are voters. Therefore, most of these here candidates, even nationwide, try to get the support of the Society members due to the fact that they know that they represent sometimes twenty, thirty, forty, fifty thousand members. [Interview interrupted.]

HERNANDEZ: --working on right now is getting the Puerto Rican ministers to get themselves involved in political action. Some people will say that that's wrong, that a church man should keep away from politics. But some of the biggest 43:00politicians today are the Catholic Church, Protestant, Jewish synagogues. They are the strength--especially the Black ministers today. If you look into the Black area, the church is the power. They, today, have people running. In fact, today, you have Father Gigante who is a priest. He's the Councilman. So, today, the churches are participating. Therefore, why can we not encourage our Puerto Rican ministers, and even Catholic priests, to participate?

VAZQUEZ: I want to ask you something, Luis. Think about this for a second. Prior to 1940, the majority of the Puerto Ricans didn't have a lot of education.

HERNANDEZ: Right.

VAZQUEZ: But they had a thing about making money. Now, I don't know about your 44:00father making money, but I know for example, for sure, I know definitely, your brother Julius has made more money than a lot of big businessmen in New York City. He went up and down, of course, like others, but he speculated. He's been an entrepreneur, just like on Wall Street. He's been an entrepreneur in the neighborhood. I've seen Julie one day having a big business affair and, the next day, selling some items. He's always been employed. All your brothers have always been enterprising. Not only have they been involved in politics, but I find that in interviewing other Puerto Ricans, they all have been money makers. They have acquired a knack for making money when they are not from New York City. They are not city people, but they have made money.

HERNANDEZ: This is the thing. In our family, we were very much associated with the first Puerto Rican association--Merchants Association in Brooklyn. I think it was one of the strongest organizations of years ago. They started, I would say, before the Second World War, now--

VAZQUEZ: Was that--?

HERNANDEZ: Ramonda Gonzalez, who passed away. Now, my brother was very active and I also was a trouble-shooter. At one time, we had near a thousand members due to urban renewal in Brownsville and East New York area. We had at one time about five hundred members in the Brownsville-East New York area. When urban renewal came in many of these areas, not only those areas, they knocked down all 46:00those small little bodegas and they put supermarkets. So they knocked a hell of a lot of Puerto Rican businesses out.

In our family, we were always interested especially, all of us, in being independent. The only way you could be independent in any country in the world is when you own your own business or you work for yourself. The minute you work for somebody else you're no longer independent. Now, you can't say you're independent because your boss will say, "Either do this or that," and if you don't do it, you're just out of luck. The only way you could work politically is really to have the time on your own. Therefore, by having your own business, you could close it when you want to or you could put somebody else there if you wanted to and, at the same time, go out into the area and do a job, and nobody 47:00can tell you, "I'm going to take your bread and butter because you are doing a political job that I may not like," or political party. That's why we were always independent and businessmen--so that we would be able to apply ourselves where we want to.

My brother, Eddy, is still an insurance broker. He's got his insurance business in Tompkins Avenue. Bennie still has got a hardware store. He's got his business on Tompkins Avenue. Then, my brother, Henry, is a top insurance salesman for the Prudential. He's been with them for quite a few years. My other brother, Tony, is in real estate. He started out with one house. He may have now, today, thirty-some odd houses in California. So he's a real real-estate man. My brother, Pedro, was, remember, the featherweight contender of the world title. Today, he's got his own business. He's got a collection agency in California. He 48:00collects from mostly Hollywood people who run away with [laughter], after they find themselves in trouble. But him and his son, President and Vice President, run the operation of a collection agency. Besides, he runs his own bar called The Champ in Los Angeles. Then, my brother, Julius, and I are more involved in political and the other activities and in government.

So the family are involved in business and political because we realize that these are the two only fields that you should be involved with. If you're not in business, you should be in politics so that you're independent; you're able to express yourself; you can do what you want to. I'm happy to say that my family, we follow my father's footsteps and we're all the same.

VAZQUEZ: Are there any closing comments you'd like to make, Luis?

HERNANDEZ: Well, all I could say is that I think that the Puerto Rican youth have a tremendous opportunity in this country. Although the first ones had a tough time at the beginning, I say that the field is open today for the youth to really express themselves, for the youth to promote themselves, and are able to gain in stature if they want to. The only pitiful thing that I see in this whole thing is that they need somebody to guide them. [Interview interrupted.]

HERNANDEZ: I would say that the only problem I see is that the parents today are not the parents of years ago. The father and mother of years ago was a real 50:00mother and father. They came off that banana boat. They didn't have a nickel in their pocket, but they had the heart of gold. They gave everything for their children to be something. Today, I think we lack that. It seems like they want to have a good time and forget about the youth. Unless they put themselves to guide those youth, they're going to go down the wayside. And I do hope that we will be able to open the eyes of some of these here parents and make them understand to keep away--Not the question that welfare is the worst thing in the world, but that they should apply themselves to trying to find jobs and get higher education and so on, so that they will be able to help their children out. That's the main thing.

VAZQUEZ: Luis, on behalf of the Long Island Historical Society and myself, I would like very much to say that we're happy we were able to take up your valuable time, and hope that in the future, if need be, we can come back.

HERNANDEZ: Any time you want to.

VAZQUEZ: Thank you very much.

HERNANDEZ: Okay.