Leo Skolnick

BENJAMIN FILENE: What did you do at the yard exactly?

LEO SKOLNICK: I uh well let me give you a brief rundown.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.

LEO SKOLNICK: I started there 1936.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: As an apprentice in the sheet metal shop.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: I, uh, served my apprenticeship.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: I became what they called a sketcher.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: In the sheet metal shop.

BENJAMIN FILENE: What does that mean?

LEO SKOLNICK: Well, I used to do, uh, before they would fabricate anything the -- you had to go, uh, measure -- measure the -- you know the actual ship conditions.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And make shop drawings.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: Then it would go into the shop and be fabricated.

BENJAMIN FILENE: I see.

LEO SKOLNICK: And then, you know, sent out to the ship and installed. And then I became a supervisor.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And I worked there. I did what we called design coordination.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: I coordinated the design drawings with the actual field 1:00conditions. And I worked there till '48.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm. So you were there, uh, quite a long time.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah. Well, 12 years.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Um, and, uh, how did you feel about working there? I mean, was it a place that you were --

LEO SKOLNICK: It was a hard place.

BENJAMIN FILENE: A hard place?

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Why?

LEO SKOLNICK: Why?

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. What was --

LEO SKOLNICK: I was primarily concerned in new construction.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And the closest thing to describe it was like a new construction was like Dante's Inferno.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh no.

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yes.

BENJAMIN FILENE: What was -- what was so tough?

LEO SKOLNICK: Between the noise and the conditions and the fumes and the welding and the --

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And everything.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Was the --

LEO SKOLNICK: I don't think we built a big ship without losing 12 to 14 people.

BENJAMIN FILENE: You're kidding. What happened?

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh, accidents.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Like what kind of accidents?

LEO SKOLNICK: All kinds of accidents. Falls.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Really?

LEO SKOLNICK: People falling. Things falling on people.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Gosh. What -- and this was in the machine?

LEO SKOLNICK: No. No, no, this was on the --

BENJAMIN FILENE: On the --

LEO SKOLNICK: Out on the ships.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.

LEO SKOLNICK: On -- on the building ways.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.

LEO SKOLNICK: While the ships are under construction.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: Not in the shops. This is out on the ships.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay. And how long were you out on the ships?

LEO SKOLNICK: Well, I would say out of the, uh, 12 years I would say 11 years.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay. Wow. And -- and so how were the, uh, did the workers complain about these conditions?

LEO SKOLNICK: No. Who complained?

BENJAMIN FILENE: No. Why don't --

LEO SKOLNICK: You were glad to have a job.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm. Mm hm. And, uh --

LEO SKOLNICK: It was -- it was -- it was hell.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: Hot in summer, cold in the winter.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Huh.

LEO SKOLNICK: Though it was always easier to work in the winter than it was in 3:00the summer because you could always find a place to warm up.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: You could never find a place to cool off.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: So, um.

LEO SKOLNICK: But there used to be, when the temperature used to hit, uh, let's say 90, they would knock off.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: Because you just couldn't work.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. So was it hot just from -- from the heat outside or was it the machinery?

LEO SKOLNICK: The heat outside. The steel would heat up.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh huh.

LEO SKOLNICK: And the ventilation wasn't, you know, of the best. We had temporary ventilation but it was just, uh, to try and get rid of some of the fumes.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: From the welding and the burning.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. So were the fumes dangerous do you feel or --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh, some were. Some weren't.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah. Depending on what was being welded or burnt.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. And, um, so how did -- so you say people were just happy to have a job. Uh, were the -- were there --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yeah. Well during the war -- well during the war years it was another story. I started in '36 you know. Things were very --

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: -- very bad.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Sure. Sure.

LEO SKOLNICK: See.

BENJAMIN FILENE: And then during the war?

LEO SKOLNICK: And then during the war, well, you were doing things for your country.

BENJAMIN FILENE: So that's why people didn't complain?

LEO SKOLNICK: No, nobody complained.

BENJAMIN FILENE: But during the war why didn't they complain?

LEO SKOLNICK: Nobody complained.

BENJAMIN FILENE: No. But why not?

LEO SKOLNICK: Why? Because it was -- it was, uh, that was a job and we were doing it.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh huh.

LEO SKOLNICK: You didn't know any better.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay. Um. did workers, did they complain among themselves if they weren't complaining --

LEO SKOLNICK: No.

BENJAMIN FILENE: No. No.

LEO SKOLNICK: Uh, you know we would talk how hot it is. And we never complained against conditions.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm. So, um --

LEO SKOLNICK: It was -- it was a rough place to work.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Yeah. So, uh --

LEO SKOLNICK: But, uh, that was the nature of the business.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. Could -- could they have made it better do you think?

LEO SKOLNICK: No. Very hard.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Just the nature of the shipbuilding.

LEO SKOLNICK: Just the nature of the shipbuilding industry.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Hm. Um, so what did you do, uh, after '48?

LEO SKOLNICK: After '48 I, uh, well I went to school and I got my degree.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And I went into design.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm. That's interesting. So did you leave in '48 because for the reduction in force?

LEO SKOLNICK: That was part of it, yes.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yes.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Were, um, how did you feel about leaving?

LEO SKOLNICK: Well in a way I was glad.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: As a matter of fact, I drew out all my pension money so that I wouldn't think of going back again. [laughter]

BENJAMIN FILENE: [laughter] I see. You wanted to cut the tie.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah, though -- though over the years I worked for several naval architects and on occasion I had to go back to the Brooklyn Navy Yard.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And I would speak to the head of the shop and he -- he wanted me to come back.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And, uh, I said, oh no. See what the problem was, I started in '36. I was a young kid.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: And uh I was a young kid during the war. How old was I? I started 6:00when I was about 20.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh huh.

LEO SKOLNICK: So I was of draft age.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: But I had a very, very big job down the yard, I was a supervisor, had 200 to 300 people working under me.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: That I was in charge of.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: And of course, uh, I wasn't drafted.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. Sure. Hm. Was that typical do you think that the supervisors weren't drafted?

LEO SKOLNICK: No, they weren't.

BENJAMIN FILENE: They weren't, yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: No. Because, uh, they -- they came up with what they called a -- a replacement schedule. Those who were of draft age like I was --

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: The, uh, were put on what they called a replacement schedule.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: In other words, depending on your experience and the time that you had in and what your job was, they set up a schedule of how long it would take to train somebody to replace you.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And that -- that designated what your draft status was.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh I see.

LEO SKOLNICK: See.

BENJAMIN FILENE: So it would have taken a long time.

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Um, so what about the people working, I mean the average workers? They were drafted, is that right?

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yes. We had -- yeah there were people drafted out.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh huh.

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh sure.

BENJAMIN FILENE: But if you were -- if you were on the bottom of the totem pole working in the -- at the Navy Yard.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah, and if you were a young lad.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Were you um at all -- at all given preference? Or were you drafted just like a normal civilian?

LEO SKOLNICK: Uh, well you -- they would get some preference.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Some preference?

LEO SKOLNICK: Yes. They would get some preference.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And a lot depended in those days on how -- how bad your local draft board needed -- needed people.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: See, how bad it was in the local draft board.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh huh.

LEO SKOLNICK: Speaking to you, I don't think you -- you went through those years.

BENJAMIN FILENE: No I didn't.

LEO SKOLNICK: No, you don't sound that old.

BENJAMIN FILENE: No I didn't, no. Hm. That's interesting.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Um, just return to the accidents. The last time you said that you regularly lost people, um --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: What, uh, just because of machinery falling and things?

LEO SKOLNICK: No, no, no, different things happening.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Like what happened?

LEO SKOLNICK: Well, what happened, uh, let -- let me start talking. Uh, they were building the ship up on the building ways.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And they were pulling in the propeller shafts. These are the shafts that are connected to the turbines that are connected to the propellers.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.

LEO SKOLNICK: And I would say on these -- on the big battleships they're about 18 inches in diameter.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And they were pulling them in through the bearings and they were using what they called chain blocks. And, uh, with cables.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And they were pulling. And one, they strained it, and the cable snapped and the cable just whipped and took one kid's head right off.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh. Oh yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: That was on one of the battleships.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh.

LEO SKOLNICK: North Carolina. I think it was. Or the Iowa or the Missouri, I don't remember which. Uh I was working one night up on a, uh, up on a CVB-42, 9:00the Roosevelt.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: And, uh, the welders were doing the production welding of the flight deck which was three and a half thick -- three and a half inches thick.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh huh.

LEO SKOLNICK: On that particular ship.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh huh.

LEO SKOLNICK: That was the CVB-42. And when they welded the welding would pull the plates together very tight. So in order to keep the proper spacing for the welding they would put in wedges. And as they would weld on either side of the wedge the plates would squeeze up against the wedge.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: And the wedges had a tendency to pop out.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: So what they would do is they would weld a piece of strap iron over the wedge and down to the deck.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: To keep them from popping.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And I was up on the deck this one night talking to another supervisor and about ten feet away was a -- a fellow was going to chip out a wedge.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: And he chips off one side of the strap that was holding in the wedge and he goes to lean over to chip off the other side. And I go to say something:, don't lean over. And before I can say anything the wedge popped and struck him in the chest.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh. Oh.

LEO SKOLNICK: Killed him right there in front of me.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh that's horrible.

LEO SKOLNICK: Horrible.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: Another time we were repairing the Franklin. Franklin was an airplane carrier that got hit out in the Pacific. A lot of people got killed, a lot of our sailors, and they brought it into the Navy Yard and then practically rebuilt it. And, uh, it was just about finished and the painters were inside painting out, uh, some of the tanks. I think it was one of the aviation gasoline 11:00tanks. And there were six painters down there. Somebody went by and accidentally pulled the handle of the CO2 release fire extinguisher system and flooded the tank with CO2. One fellow got out.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh. Yeah. Well I mean the reason -- I didn't want to drag all that out except that, uh, I -- I wanted to know what, uh, some sense of what the problems were, you know, so that --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh. A lot of falls.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah, that's terrible.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Um, now when these accidents happened were they reported to people?

LEO SKOLNICK: What do you mean reported?

BENJAMIN FILENE: Reported to the press, reported to the The Shipworker?

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh, no.

BENJAMIN FILENE: The Shipworker magazine, newspaper.

LEO SKOLNICK: No, we had no magazine.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Well the -- you -- the Navy Yard had the magazine. The -- they had the newspaper.

LEO SKOLNICK: Did we?

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. The Shipworker.

LEO SKOLNICK: I don't remember that. Not when I was there.

BENJAMIN FILENE: During the war they had it.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah?

BENJAMIN FILENE: We have copies.

LEO SKOLNICK: Gee, I don't remember that.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Huh. So the -- but anyway, uh, so were -- reported to your supervisors? Is that right?

LEO SKOLNICK: Well, accident reports had to be filled out by the supervisors.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah, okay.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah. I was a supervisor.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. But I mean, then you turned them in to the commander's office or something.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah and then they -- then they investigated it and they -- you know to try to find out what was the cause of the accident, was it carelessness or what.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm. Was there compensation?

LEO SKOLNICK: Huh?

BENJAMIN FILENE: Compensation?

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yeah there was comp. Workmen's compensation.

BENJAMIN FILENE: And, um, were you part of the union then that they had?

LEO SKOLNICK: Uh, there was a union but the union wasn't strong.

BENJAMIN FILENE: No?

LEO SKOLNICK: No.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Why wasn't it?

LEO SKOLNICK: It wasn't.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Why wasn't it strong?

LEO SKOLNICK: Just wasn't.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh. Were the workers, uh, interested in making it stronger or were they not so involved in it?

LEO SKOLNICK: Uh, there wasn't much of a union representation then.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm. So do you mean that people, uh --

LEO SKOLNICK: Not in those days, not down in the Navy Yard.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. Did people join it and then just not do much? Or did they not even join it?

LEO SKOLNICK: Well, they couldn't do much.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm. Did they join it?

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yeah there were people, there was a union. In my particular shop we had a union.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm. And were most people in it or --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh no, not too many.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Not too many.

LEO SKOLNICK: Not too many.

BENJAMIN FILENE: It just, it just wasn't that big a movement then.

LEO SKOLNICK: No it wasn't that big a movement, no.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay. That's really interesting because we've been trying to get, um, some information on, uh, exactly you know what the conditions were and what the unions were like, and they --

LEO SKOLNICK: Uh, they had -- they had some sort of a, uh, a negotiating committee when it came to wages. A board.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And, uh, this board would, uh, check the wages in the local area and set the wages accordingly, theoretically.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: But the Navy Yard wages, being we were working for the government, they were a little less than the prevailing wages outside in the trades.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: Because they were compensated for it in other ways.

BENJAMIN FILENE: They had better --

LEO SKOLNICK: First off we got 26 days a year vacation.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: And you got 15 days a year sick leave and you got holidays.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: Which they weren't getting in private industry.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: So the wages you know were compensated to take that into account.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. You probably got better pensions, right?

LEO SKOLNICK: And pensions.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. Hm. Um, well you've been very helpful. It's interesting.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Uh, I thank you --

LEO SKOLNICK: What are you setting up? Are you setting up a museum or something?

BENJAMIN FILENE: What we're doing -- yeah we're doing an exhibit. Um, a permanent exhibit on Brooklyn history. And as part of it we're talking about -- we're focusing on the Navy Yard um in -- as a way to talk about industry in Brooklyn.

LEO SKOLNICK: Uh huh.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Brooklyn. And specifically talking about, uh, well mainly about World War II at the Navy Yard.

LEO SKOLNICK: Uh huh.

BENJAMIN FILENE: And so we're talking to a lot of, uh, former Navy Yard workers.

LEO SKOLNICK: Are you finding them?

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah we're finding quite a few.

LEO SKOLNICK: Because, uh, you know we're all pretty old.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Well, yeah but people, um, people have been very helpful and uh --

LEO SKOLNICK: Uh huh. Where is this exhibit going to be?

BENJAMIN FILENE: I'm sorry?

LEO SKOLNICK: Where -- where will it be?

BENJAMIN FILENE: The Brooklyn Historical Society. Um, which is, uh, it's in Brooklyn Heights.

LEO SKOLNICK: Uh huh.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Um, and it's going to be a permanent exhibit there.

LEO SKOLNICK: I have a niece living in Brooklyn Heights.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh. Well you come -- come by and uh --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh sure. Definitely.

BENJAMIN FILENE: In around June maybe.

LEO SKOLNICK: Well, I'll be up around December.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay. Oh. Next December or this December?

LEO SKOLNICK: This coming December.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Well, it won't be out yet.

LEO SKOLNICK: No?

BENJAMIN FILENE: No but it won't be out till, uh, May or June.

LEO SKOLNICK: Mm hm.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Um, but if you can come then that would be great. You should see -- see what we come up with.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah, I worked on, uh, gee whiz, a lot of ships.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: The Brooklyn, the Honolulu, the Helena.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: The, uh, uh, the North Carolina, the Iowa, the Missouri.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Wow. Yeah. Do you think that the, uh, conditions that you were working in were typical of uh --LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yes.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Typical of other shops?

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh sure.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm. But a lot of people --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh sure.

BENJAMIN FILENE: -- don't talk about --

LEO SKOLNICK: Other Navy yards. Because when I worked for the naval architect we used to go to different Navy yards to check out different ships.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And it was the same all over.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Were there other shops or were you the supervisor of all -- of all --

LEO SKOLNICK: No, I was -- I was in what they called the sheet metal shop.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: I was the supervisor in the sheet metal shop.

BENJAMIN FILENE: But you did a lot of work outside the shop.

LEO SKOLNICK: Outside the shop, well, the -- you know I was a supervisor of the sheet metal shop. And we had work inside where they fabricated it, and then the -- whatever was fabricated in the shop had to be installed on the ships.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: That was the outside work.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. And then when you were done with your work did other shops come in to do their work on the ship?

LEO SKOLNICK: Well, it was all -- it was all coordinated.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. Okay.

LEO SKOLNICK: See.

BENJAMIN FILENE: So --

LEO SKOLNICK: There was the machine shops.

BENJAMIN FILENE: So like --

LEO SKOLNICK: There was the coppersmith. There was the plumbing shop.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: There was the electrical.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah, there was --

BENJAMIN FILENE: So a lot of -- like a lot of --

LEO SKOLNICK: It was all coordinated.

BENJAMIN FILENE: So a lot of the machine shop workers and, uh, electrical workers were subject to the same conditions.

LEO SKOLNICK: Absolutely.

BENJAMIN FILENE: That you -- that your people were in.

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yes.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And then there were the -- the ancillary trades like the welders and the burners.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: See.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: We considered them the tools.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Huh.

LEO SKOLNICK: We didn't consider them as, you know, being the real journeyman trades.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Huh. That's --

LEO SKOLNICK: They were our tools.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: You know, like I would consider a, uh, a welder like a nail. If we wanted to fasten something together we would get a welder and let him weld it.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: It was just like a nail.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Necessary. Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: And a burner would be like a saw. You want to burn something and cut something, you get a burner.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm. Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: He was like a tool.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And this is -- this is what caused a lot of these stories that you hear going around about people sleeping here and sleeping there. A lot of the work that was being done on the ship, you know, we had our skilled mechanics. And the mechanics, you know, every so often they'd need a welder or they'd need a burner. And they themselves didn't do it. But you -- so they would have a welder assigned to them.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: A tack welder they would be called.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And when he needed the tack welder he had to have that tack welder right then and there.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: Other times the tack welder, well, go sit, go sleep in the corner. When they need you I'll call you.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: It was like a nail, you know, being on the shelf.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: When you wanted it it had to be there.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. They weren't really slacking off, they were --

LEO SKOLNICK: No, they were -- they -- they were in between assignments.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right, right.

LEO SKOLNICK: Mm hm.

BENJAMIN FILENE: That's interesting. I didn't know that.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah, well.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: Because, uh, I started in the Navy Yard, there were 5,000 people in '36.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm. Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: At the height of the war I think we had over 70,000.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yes. Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: And we did a lot of work. A lot of work was accomplished.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: Both the new construction and repair work.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Mm hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: A lot, a tremendous amount of work.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Hm.

LEO SKOLNICK: And uh you know over the course of the years I hear all kinds of stories. And if these stories were true none of this work could have been done.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Huh. Actually I've heard some opposite stories about how --

LEO SKOLNICK: And believe me, this was all quality work.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Yeah. Well I've heard --

LEO SKOLNICK: You take the Brooklyn Navy Yard, we got the Iowa and the Missouri, they're floating around out in the -- in the straits of Bahrain now.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah, I worked on both of them.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Hm. Yeah well they -- I've heard stories about how much, uh, you know, good work was done.

LEO SKOLNICK: The best.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: The best.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: Believe me.

BENJAMIN FILENE: That's good.

LEO SKOLNICK: I'm proud of it.

BENJAMIN FILENE: That's good. So despite -- despite the harsh conditions.

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yes.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay. Well uh, again thank you very much, you've been very helpful.

LEO SKOLNICK: Okay. What's your name?

BENJAMIN FILENE: Benjamin Filene. Uh F as in Frank.

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh, Filene.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. I-L-E-N-E.

LEO SKOLNICK: Like Filene's in Boston?

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. No relation but --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh. [laughter]

BENJAMIN FILENE: The same name, yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. So, um -- yeah like I say we're going to get this exhibit out in May or June.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah, one thing I did miss. After I left a couple years later they had a tremendous fire.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah.

LEO SKOLNICK: On one of the carriers.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Heard about that. We --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah that uh --

LEO SKOLNICK: A lot of the fellows I worked with got killed.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh really?

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah we -- I read about that. That was terrible.

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Yeah. Okay.

LEO SKOLNICK: OK, Ben. Lots of --

BENJAMIN FILENE: Well, thanks.

LEO SKOLNICK: So, how you doing though?

BENJAMIN FILENE: We're doing pretty well.

LEO SKOLNICK: You know, artifacts, it was against the law to take anything out of the Navy Yard.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. Um we don't have, uh, you know there's certain things that we don't have. We do have some tools. Uh, toolboxes. ID cards. We have, um, a lot of paperwork. Um, you know, paychecks and, uh, magazine, uh, like I say The Shipworker there was that newspaper and um --

LEO SKOLNICK: Huh.

BENJAMIN FILENE: And, uh, we have a few people's goggles. Uh, things like that we're getting. Um --

LEO SKOLNICK: Oh. I have my toolbox. My son has it.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh really?

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Where does he live?

LEO SKOLNICK: Well, he wouldn't give it to you.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Oh, Okay. [laughter]

LEO SKOLNICK: Never in a million years.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.

LEO SKOLNICK: That was one of the first things I made. You know as an apprentice.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right.

LEO SKOLNICK: You made your -- the first job you did was make your toolbox.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Right. I know.

LEO SKOLNICK: He would never give you that.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Well, I understand that. That's -- I'm not going to pry it away from him. [laughter] Keep it in the family, that's good.

LEO SKOLNICK: Yeah.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Okay.

LEO SKOLNICK: Okay, sir.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Thank you very much.

LEO SKOLNICK: Okay, Ben.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Bye-bye.

LEO SKOLNICK: Thanks for calling. Bye.

BENJAMIN FILENE: Bye.